Yahoo Store Design: Blemished Bats / Softball Equipment

Blemished Bats / Softball Equipment Store

Welcome to online store. We sell softball manufacturers' closeouts & factory seconds, cosmetically blemished bats, mitts, gloves, softballs, cleats and other sports equipment. Here you will find some of the best deals anywhere on quality softball, baseball and hockey merchandise. We sell a mixture of current seasons stock plus insane deals on cosmetic blems, over runs and prior seasons closeouts.


ROY: Combat used to be a one trick pony. They used to have just one bat, the B1, which is the top one. They make it two ways. They make it in a negative 12 and a negative 10. So it is for, again, one guy that just says, “Geez. I like a heavier bat.” They felt, “This bat is so hot, let’s just make it a little heavier and now that kid can use this, too.”

It sold very, very, very well. It has tremendous trampoline off of the bat. They came out with a new bat this year called the B2. The B2 has this, they call it the gear, which George will explain the device and get more technical with it, on the interior of the barrel. And again, this was to add more punch to it.

Now the bottom line is if that one, the B2, outperformed the B1, the B1 would never sell again. The B1 probably sold better. It was $200. The other one is $250. So it is a $50 difference. They both seemed to be very, very good. But it is not like one overwhelmingly is kicking the other one…

Rob: So they are just different?

ROY: Yeah. Well like I said, it has that gear thing, which George will technically explain it a little bit, but it is offering no more distance than the B1.

ROY: But with two different hitters, could one bat be better for a different type of hitter?

ROY: No, not at all. Like I said, with the B1 and also the B2, one is a 12 drop and one is a 10 drop. What I would have done if I was Combat, is I would have made one an 11 and one a 13, and then one a 10 and one a 12.

Steve: Four bats.

ROY: Which I said to myself one day, “Easton is the master of giving you 10 bats and every bat is different than the other.” And to me, I though that was the perfect opportunity to do that.



Man 1: Let’s talk about how we make Combat bats. This right here are all of the different fibers that make up a bat. So if you can imagine there are synthetic fibers of fiberglass and Kevlar. Aramid is the new generic graphite/Kevlar material.

All of these socks…You almost have an infinite number of ways that you can weave the material. Most manufacturers buy this material with the resin, the sticky stuff, the glue already on it, and it is known as pre-preg. So everybody has pre-preg.

What Combat does that is very different than everybody else is we get this woven ourselves and we inject our own resins into the bats. So we are actually starting with dry material where everybody else is starting out with this pre-impregnated material. And the pre-impregnated material needs to be shipped in refrigerator trucks and stored in refrigerator rooms.

So if you go to a facility that is manufacturing bats, they will have a room the size of this warehouse that is refrigerated. It apparently has the consistency of like a Laffy-Taffy. It is very sticky and very difficult to work with.

So we feel that in general that is a way that we manufacture our bats totally different than everybody else. And that allows us to, I think, control our costs and also control the way the bat performs.

So you see here the knitting material makes one bat at a time, and it is the position on the barrel that you place all of those different materials. So the socks are pulled over the mandrel and then they go into the mold. And when they come out of the mold, they are hot and they are hung on a rack. And then the bats take one total cycle of the manufacturing facility. And by the time they come back they are cooled and they are ready to be trimmed, sized, weighted, and then sent to the painting facility.

Man 1: So the decals are applied and the bats are finished.


So I think what you said is absolutely accurate in the fact that if there are standards out there that every manufacturer has to meet, everybody wants to make the bat that meets the standard.

So if the standard for whichever particular individual organization, is it a BPF 1.15 for little league…?

Rob: What does that mean?

Man 1: Bat Performance Factor. It is basically a formula. And they put in all of the data and they spit out 1.15. And as long as you are below that you pass the standard.

Man 2: Which would be like exit velocity…

Rob: So you shoot a baseball at it and how far it bounces off of it, or the speed at which a baseball comes off a bat?

Man 1: Yeah. The actually put the bat in some type of holder. And it swings and hits the ball. And all the bats are tested to make sure they meet the standard.

Rob: Like at a consistent strength?

Man 1: Correct. And I think they are always hitting the ball on the sweet spot, too. So they need to find the sweet spot on the bat, because that is of course where you will get your maximum performance.

So in reality then, when you look at every bat manufacturer, they want to make a bat that reaches 1.15 and doesn’t go over. So what are we all managing then? We are managing not the fact that we can make a bat that when you hit the ball directly on the sweet spot that it will perform this maximum allowable level. But what we are managing is when you don’t hit it on the sweet spot, the performance of the bat.

Rob: How far off the curve.

Man 1: Yeah, exactly. Or if you do hit it on the sweet spot, or off of the sweet spot, or on the handle, how does it feel in your hand? Does it hurt? Does it sting? Does it feel good? So having a soft feel.

And the other thing that everybody has to come know is that the bats performance better after they are broken in. Basically what you need to do is you start to, the minute you hit the ball, you start to break down the resin and you start to get all of those individual level layers of composite material working together. So you are kind of like breaking down the glue that is in between them.

And the quicker you can break in a bat, the better performance you get.

How many hits does it take to break in a bat?

Man 1: Excellent question. Combat always says that we are hot out of the wrapper. You take the plastic wrapper off and you are going to get maximum performance immediately. But most people say then, “Well, this bat takes longer to break in. This bat takes in shorter to break in.” I think most people think a minimum of 100 hits, and sometimes as many as 300.

So that is certainly something else that we are trying to manage, is how quick that bat breaks in and you get the best performance that you can get out of that bat.

Roy: …will last X amount of hits?


Rep1: That I have never heard.

Roy: I had a guy come in a couple weeks back. I lent him my demo. He broke the demo. They had replaced the bat. He came back and he said, “I spoke to the guy at Combat and the guy at Combat told me that…” He is a super enthusiast. He is obviously an ex player himself. He is a 40 year old guy or whatever and has two little kids.

He goes, “We just pound and pound. Guys are hitting 100’s of hits a day.” He said the guy at Combat told him that the bats were only good for about 1,000 hits. I said, “1,000 to me doesn’t sound right. Are you sure he didn’t say like 10,000?” I said, “1,000? That could be over in like a weekend!” I was just curious if you have ever heard that.

Rep1: The only thing that I had run into recently was a guy returned his bat…Or what did he do? He returned a bat that he broke. And then his return bat broke and he returned that one, too. And he was complaining because you only get one.

Roy: I think it is a timeframe is how I would look at it.

Rep1: That is exactly what he was saying, that he has now broken two within the same year. It is definitely a problem with the bat.

Roy: When guys break it after 10 months and then get a new one, and they break it after eight months and then go, “Oh, I want another one,” it is like, “No, no. It doesn’t work like that, like just let me keep breaking it within that one year of one year of replacement of replacement.” But I think it is fair if a guy out of the box breaks it within like a month and then gets a replacement, and then a month later breaks that one, it is two months. The guy deserves a bat.

Rep1: So I guess what happened was we didn’t have a bat, so he calls me. I happened to have the size in my bag that he was looking for, and he lived in the next town over. So I am like, “You got the big game tonight. Come on over and grab mine. No problem. I will take care of you.”

Then I sent that information off to Combat, “Don’t worry about this guy. I was able to take care of him.” They sent me an email back that said, “Well you know, we need to stay consistent on this.”

C------ actually sent me a note and said, “I personally looked at that bat. It was used.” He used the term, “It must have had 1,000 hits on it.” So that is the only time anybody has ever thrown a legitimate number at me.

He said the grip was worn out; there was no paint left on the bat at all. It definitely might have been the bat that the kid owned and every kid on the team used. But no, I have never heard of a specific number before.

I do know in reading a lot of the product feedback, if you go to the bat websites and hit product reviews, there is a lot of history now all of a sudden on all of the bats. It seems like everybody loves the B1, but definitely does say that it is prone to crack.

Roy: I don’t know that they would admit to a number, but what would you say the return ratio is on that bat?

Rep1: I think it has got to be less than 10%. I mean it is not a lot.

Roy: My feeling is that as Combat gets bigger and bigger, and they have started with little league, which is a wonderful thing because as kids go out of league, the go to senior league. As kids get of our senior league, they go into high school. Then they are softball players and so on.

So the development is going in the right way. But as these bats tend to break people get upset and pissed off, and it is almost like just an FU, like, “I know your bat is good but I don’t want to deal with it.”

You may want to consider doing some type of allowing a return. Believe me when I tell you, I have become real tough with people with returns, because Louisville allows me to do returns. Some guys I will do returns for and other guys I will go, “Send it back yourself dude. I am not getting involved. This bat is !@#$ing beat to S#!%. You have no receipt. Yeah, I know you are a customer. I know you come in here. But you have no receipt.”

Rep1: Yeah. They could have got it anywhere.

Roy: Right. And you know, I am not going to do it. But where they could say, “OK. I have this one dealer or someone that is selling a good volume of bats,” because man oh man. I tell you. I cringe when I see them coming in and they are holding that bat, and they just want to hit you in the head with it when you tell them, “Well it has got to go back to them.” And they are like, “Well how quick of a turnaround is that going to be?”

We have the demos and I do those. And I let guys borrow them. I do. I let them take mine. They are thankful for that and it is good, but I am kind of helping keep them in a Combat.

So it is like, “Well guys maybe you should consider giving the flexibility to allow to do it.” I had a guy in here and he is a grumpy gus. I mean I am talking a major jerk off. He just said, “Roy you have to do the right thing.” I said, “I can’t. What do you mean I have to do the right thing?” They just want you to give them a bat, and then I go, “OK. I am out $300 now.”

That is the way it works. I just can’t do it any other way. He is a guy I can say probably wouldn’t buy a Combat anymore. Whereas he had loved Combat. And when his kid got out of little league and gone on to senior league and got the new one.

So had I been able to kind of do that and kind of work it out and get that one back to him, it is a conversation to have. Maybe they may say…

Rep1: Well what do other manufacturers send when it is a…

Man 1: I think the problem is that the speed of being…And that is the growth of Combat not being able to turn on a dime like that. They are on the West Coast. We are on the East Coast.

I tell people, “Hey. I do a whole lot more than everybody else. I will take the bat back for you. You do all your due diligence on your end. I will ship it back for you. It costs me $10 which I am not asking you for.”

So it takes as long as it is going to take. If they have the bat, they turn around. All of a sudden a guy, especially in all star time when guys are like going…

Man 2: Which is why it was interesting you took that week off.


Man 2: The first week all-stars open!

Man 1: I am taking that week off whether…I could care less…

Man 2: I got more phone calls that week than I got all year with problems. But yeah. That is the story of the B2. It is supposed to be more durable. Certainly the Virus with the double barrel is a tremendously durable bat.

Man 1: Well let’s walk through the product. Let’s get kind of a line presentation of this and this. : Well let’s walk through the product. Let’s get kind of a line presentation of this and this…


Let’s go through and kind of give us the whole spill on B2 and then B1.

Rep1: OK. Let’s start with the Combat B1. So you got the general information on what we think makes Combat different from all of our competitors.


I think we are the only guys making bats in North America, Canada, not the US…

Roy: Mexico is not the US?

Rep1: Not yet. But yeah, I don’t think anybody is making them in Mexico anymore either.

Roy: DeMarini, I know that they have been doing a lot of components, like putting together in the US. Making? I don’t know.

Rep1: From what I have been told everything is now in China. We even have heard that from people who look at our competitors bat. The year it was made in Mexico it was a really good bat. The year the same bat came from China it wasn’t a good bat anymore.

So we are of course using that as, “Well they don’t even know what is going on over there and they are not doing what they are supposed to be doing and making what they are supposed to be making.”

History of Combat Bats

What can we say about the B1? The B1, which back in 2007 became known as, “I need the black bat,” and as you can see it is a beautiful metallic dark green, but it was called the black bat mainly because of what happened at the little league world series that year.

Combat, not at all a sponsor, an official little league sponsor, although the official little league approved, had two teams that were swinging what became known as the black bat. And luckily one of those teams ended up winning the world series championship, beating the team from the Japan. And luckily they won it in the eighth inning by a walk off homerun by a young man that was swinging a Combat.

From that day, the black bat became infamous and we started to get a tremendous amount of calls for, “What were those kids swinging at the little league world series? I haven’t heard of it. I didn’t know anything about it, but obviously they are very, very good bats.”

There was even a story that the Venezuelan team, which was 100% Combat, purchased from a dealer in Southwest Texas who I guess had relationships with the people in Venezuela, that as they were going through the international bracket putting up some big scores, that after they were eliminated the Japanese Mizuno sponsored team took their interpreter and got together with the Venezuelan interpreter, and they ended up buying the Venezuelan’s Combats off of them so that they could swing them. This is a picture from the championship game.

Combat Bats Technology

Rep1: OK. So the B1 is what we would call single barrel technology, meaning it has got about seven layers of composite fabrics. We make one entire bat. It is that technology that allows it to break in very quickly.

We talked about the fact that we are using dry composite materials in our own proprietary resin. And the other important feature of it is the fact that it gives you tremendous performance at tremendous value at $199 pricing.

Rob: What are other manufacturers with similar quality bats retail for?

Roy: The highest we make is $250. So in reality, $250 is the highest little league bat that is out there, which is the B2, which is $250. That seems to be where DeMarini, Easton. Our top of the line bat, what we say is our best bat, is $250.

Rep1: What we found with this bat is every year, everybody that owned a bat wouldn’t always want to know what the new bat is, and they would want to buy the next newer bat. Even though the next newer bat was $20, $30, $50 more or whatever it was, it was like, “Well I have got to have the newest bat because the newest bat is going to be the hottest bat.”

This bat, for whatever reason, still has a tremendous following. Even though there are more expensive bats out there, there are still people that clamor to and swear by the B1.

Rob: So every year y’all don’t relabel it and change the colors.

Roy: This hasn’t changed.

Rep1: Not in three years.

Roy: so they haven’t said, “Hey, this is the B1, but we have improved. We have done this.” It is the same as it was in ’07. It is the same bat, but we still consider it a 2010 bat, 2010 model.

Rep1: Everybody says that it is immediately hot out of the wrapper. They walk out on the field, peel the wrapper off, boom, start hitting bombs with it.

This is just for your information. In 2008 we came out with a new line of bats called the Virus. And the Virus technology was where we built two barrels for every bat. We put one down inside the other.

So we had an outer sleeve barrel and an inner core barrel. That ended up giving you 14 layers of composite materials.

Roy: Was there anything in between the two shells? You put one inside the other, so basically is it wall to wall?

Rep1: Yeah.

Roy: So there is nothing in between it, no carbon of any sort?

Rep1: No other different filler. That bat, we have Virus technology throughout our product line. On the youth baseball side, I guess, is an example of what works in the laboratory versus what works on the field.

What we found with the Virus was while it was a more durable bat and definitely a bat that would provide greater distance and greater performance, because of the additional walls and the added end loaded weight of it, it tended to have a shorter sweet spot and a longer break in period.

Now on the slow pitch and fast pitch softball side it has not been issue, and Virus technology has been very strong. On the little league baseball side, people still said, “I spent a little bit more money and bought the Virus, but I really prefer the B1.”

Combat Bats “Gear Technology”

So the next generation was what we call gear technology. Gear technology was something that we had put in the line in the slow pitch softball side. If you can imagine when a ball makes impact on a bat, it produces waves of energy. The waves of energy basically go down to the handle knob and then bounce back to the barrel.

So the gear technology is ridges in the taper. On the slow pitch softball bats they are actually on the outside of the bat. On the baseball little league bat they are inside. That traps the waves of energy and propels them back into the barrel, which adds to performance.

It also takes a little bit of weight out of the taper, so we can lengthen the barrel which gives you a greater sweet spot. It is the single barrel technology of the B1, so you have the immediate gratification, a very, very short break in period, and it is that combination.

There is also more graphite and Kevlar and better quality materials in the B2, and that combination has made it a better performing bat as well as a more durable bat.

Roy: Since the gear is in the throat right there, is that supposed to…OK. So is it supposed to be quicker? It goes down and back quicker as opposed to going down and all the way back.

Rep1: Right. Plus a softer feel and less vibration in your hands.

Roy: OK. So other than the gear, and then of course the difference of being, let’s say, of Kevlar, carbon, fiberglass, whatever, same thing. These are different things that make the B2 different than the B1. Anything else to add to make it what makes different?

Rep1: Just the fact that if you were to…

Roy: Capture the same?

Rep1: If you were to take a similar size bat, you see that the taper here starts a little sooner. So I think you have a little bit larger sweet spot because you have a little bit longer barrel.

Rob: The B2 has a longer sweet spot?

Rep1: The B2.

Roy: That, to me, would also be another good key point to say, that the B2 has a little bit larger sweet spot because of the gear mechanism that is enabling the length of shell to be a little bit longer…

Rep1: The barrel to be a little bit longer.

Roy: So it doesn’t have to taper.

Rep1: Here is the perfect example with two 30/20’s. You can see more meat here than you do here.

Rob: Let me take a picture of that.

Rob: So you can repeat again the major difference between those two?

Man 1: Roy mentioned, I guess, the upgraded materials that are used to make the B2.

Man 2: [xx], the carbon [xx], the Kevlar, fiberglass, etc, and then the gear. So the gear thing, which his wherever it is placed in here, instead of the impact of energy going all the way down to the end of the bat, the knob, then coming back, it hits your gear and goes from here to here and back quicker; a little bit quicker transfer of energy.

Rob: Which means that you are hitting the ball farther?

Man 1: Yeah, I guess it would enhance the trampolining effect of the bat. I am trying to see. Do you have a gear up here to show them?

Man 2: What do you mean? Oh, the softball? Which model?

Man 1: It is the gear Virus.

Man 2: The slow pitch?

Man 1: Right.

Rep1: Oh, it’s in the taper. Little League Baseball said, “Oh, you can’t have anything on the outside of the bat.” So we therefore are using this gear technology inside as the way of explaining it to people.

Rep1: So that is the little league line right now outside of the Throttle. We talked about Virus a little bit, but that one actually is going away. We do have another bat called the Throttle that is similar to the B1 and the B2 in its makeup, except once again is made of mostly fiberglass, composite fiberglass material; very little of the Kevlar and the graphite.

Rob: So it is cheaper?

Rep1: So that is the price point bat.

Rob: So what price is that?

Rep1: I think $179, $159? Yeah $159.

Roy: Yeah, if you are spending $159 you are going to spend $250.

Rob: OK. It is not like a $30 bat or something.

Roy: No. If they had that bat at like $120 or $99.


Rep1: …was the way to go. We had senior league and adult baseball Virus bats. And yet all of our customers, those 11 and 12 year olds, that were playing little league team in their town, but then also playing in their sponsored travel batting cage team where they hit…

Everyone of them told us every time we ran into a little kid, he is like, “Why can’t you do a B1, B2 big barrel?” So Combat did listen. And this year, brand new for the 2009-2010 season are big barrel youth bats, the B1 and the B2.

Rob: I don’t understand the big barrel and the not big barrel. Are they different?

Roy: Right. So little league is 2 1/4. Look at the size. Look at the head of this. It is like, you know, Bam Bam. Look at that.

Steve: That is a baseball bat?

Rep1: That is a youth baseball bat.

Rob: But that is not little league?

Rep1: Correct. If you play little league you cannot swing a big barrel. If you play with these travel teams that are going around and playing tournaments, they don’t have any rule as to the size of the barrel. So they basically allow…

Rob: Even though it is the same age kids playing? It could be the same exact team…

Roy: Different set of rules.

Rep1: Correct.

Rob: So when you say Little League, you mean Little League trademark league…It is like Dixie League. Can they use the big barrel?

Roy: No. Generally, Dixie would be considered 2 ¼ inch max barrel. George, I don’t know if you have had this, but I have had guys come in and go…

Rep1: And then the big barrels are 2 5/8ths. So both the B1 and the B2 senior league bats, and they are categorized in the industry as senior league…

Roy: Not like old people senior league.

Rob: What age is it for senior or grades?

Roy: It is a very difficult question to answer and here is why. Generally it is around 12 to 13, 14, 15ish years old. In certain states, mainly in the South, kids seven years old are using these big barrel bats. They don’t even use a small diameter.

I am like, “Well he is seven!” That is what they use. They do. And actually they make…I don’t know if Combat has come out with it, but it has been a pretty good seller. Mikken and Easton…Mikken now, but Easton will have them momentarily, what they call a coach pitch big barrel bat.

So it is a -11 ½ with a big head on it. The Mikken one already I have sold a couple dozen. It is $140 retail.

Rep1: Wow. For coach pitch.

Roy: I hate when the use the word coach pitch, because it is not like, “Hey coach. You are going to pitch.” It is like younger kids. They only make it in 25, 26, 27, and I think 28. Those four sizes, that is it. So it is obviously for somebody that is going to be eight and under, and a big barrel bat with a bigger differential; 11.5 ounce differential. Where all of the senior league bats, all of them run from -5 to -10; that is it.

Rep1: And the reason it is hard to do the age is because you will go to some areas and…My area as an example. If you are playing middle school ball, you are basically a sixth, seventh, or eighth grader; you have to swing a -3.

Roy: And also, Westwood, this town that we are in, it is the same thing, -3. However, then those kids play on club and it is open. So they go from using a -3 to a -10. And it is huge.

And parents are like, “I don’t understand.” And I am like, “Well this school goes by high school rules…”

Rep1: So as you might imagine, with the much larger hitting surface and a larger barrel, the performance of these bats and the ability for a young kid to hit the ball a young way with a bat that is -10 drop, so he can swing a 32, 22 ounce bat and he is probably a big 12 or 13 year old playing on a little league field with 250 feet to center and 210 down the line….You read these things on the Internet sites and it is, “I hit 14 homeruns last week!” No wonder! I might even have gotten a hit when I was in little league with one of these.

So you are talking about similar technology to the little league B1 in the fact that it is what you would call a single barrel versus the Virus double barrel bat. And the difference between the B1 and the B2 is in the materials that are being used to manufacture the bat.

And unfortunately there is no gear in the senior league B2.

Roy: So are we saying that, in essence, the only difference is the material?

Rep1: Correct.

Rob: And there is no gear because…?

Rep1: That was a no brainer for me! You have a B1 little league and B2 little league. B2 has the better materials. B1 senior league, B2 senior league-gear and better materials, somehow the gear didn’t make it.

Roy: What is it? $210 and $270 retail?

And for no rhyme or reason are we selling one over the other at all.

Rob: But better materials, it doesn’t make that big of a difference?

Roy: I don’t know. “Hey it is better materials.” Guys are like, “Oh, OK. Better materials.” They look at it and they go, “Looks the same to me. It feels good. Swings the same. OK. This one is a few bucks less. Give me that one.”

Actually George, one of them is a minus 10 and one of them is a minus 8.

Rep1: The minus 10 has a little shorter barrel than the minus 8. But there doesn’t seem to be any significant barrel length difference. When you look at our bat performance features…

Roy: Well the negative 8 George, correct me if I am wrong, the negative 8 would give you a little bit more length in shell, doesn’t it?

Rep1: Correct. That is why.

Roy: So Rob, in saying, “Why would I buy this one over this one,” one reason may be, “Hey, this kid is a huge kid. He is a big strong kid.” Again, the question of what weight to use is it is as heavy as you can swing.

So he may say, “I can handle both. I am a strong kid. I am going to get a little bit more surface length and shell with this one. It may be the way for me to go.” So he goes with the negative eight. It is 32 inches, 24 ounces versus going with the 32 inches, 22 ounces, two ounces lighter, but at the same time he has got more length of shell.

Rob: So you are trading one for the other?

Roy: Which is more important?

Rep1: What he is saying is if you look at the barrel length, it is an inch and a half longer barrel on the minus 8.

Rob: So within the B2 senior league that is the difference between the minus 8 and the minus 10?

Rep1: Yeah. And the B1 as well.

Rob: So one has more weight and one has more…

Rep1: Yeah. If you can imagine, it has more weight because it has more overall materials being used.

Rob: So the longer one is heavier.

Rep1: Correct.

Rob: So why would you get the one that is…?

Rep1: Because everyone knows bat speed is very, very important. I even heard a lot of that during the all star season. During the regular season it would be OK if he swung a minus 10, but during the all star season when the pitchers are better, I am going to go down to a minus 12 so I can get around.

Rob: So they get lighter bats with faster or better pitchers?

Rep1: Well I wouldn’t say in general, but you do hear…Right. Why do you want a lighter bat? So that you can get around quicker.

Steve: That is with a faster pitcher, a guy who is going to throw the ball faster?

Rep1: Yeah. Or just in general. Your bat speed is very important. You should be able to generate greater bat speed with a lighter bat. But then at the same time, you will have, I guess, less impact with a lighter bat than you would with a heavier bat.

Rob: But it is better to get a lighter hit than not a get a hit.

Rep1: Well yeah. I mean if you are consistently swinging late. Everybody knows the proper mechanics of hitting is the ball needs to be out in front of your body and you want to be able to make contact here. If you make contact here you are not producing as much power. Obviously if you are making contact here, you are not producing much power. But if you are making contact right here and hitting the ball on the sweet spot, it is the difference between popping up and popping out, or popping one out.

In the minus 10’s we make 27’s and 28’s. Some people say, “Well that is a littler kid and he would actually want a lighter bat. Why don’t you make the minus 12’s in a 27 and a 28?”

Well we could, but the barrel would be so short there wouldn’t be much hitting surface left on it.

Roy: Rob I don’t know if this one is that good, because…

Rob: I can’t even tell by looking at it.

Roy: Well if you look right here…

Steve: Right there you can see it. Absolutely.

Roy: But does it mean anything to shoot a picture of it?

Rob: It would if I cropped it and said, “Hey, look here,” because I am sitting here looking at the whole thing and going, “I don’t see a difference.” But if you actually measure it…

Steve: So you are saying it is wider there than…?

Rob: Then that makes a big difference.

Rep1: Well it makes a difference down here where your sweet spot is. So if both of these bats have a sweet spot here…I mean that is where you want to hit it. And then now if you get jammed a little bit and you hit the ball here, and you get jammed a little bit and you hit the ball here…

Rob: OK. Tell me what these are.

Rep1: So you have both 32 inches. And you have a 24 ounce minus 8 and a 22 ounce minus 10. And as you can see, the minus 8, 24 ounce bat has a thicker barrel into the taper.

Roy: The throat extends a little bit fatter.

Rep1: And you can almost see it even where the C’s are located. The C’s are located a little bit deeper on this one as well. So therefore, if you are looking for the sweet spot, the sweet spot on the minus 8 is extended towards the handle greater than on the minus 10.

So if you should get jammed and hit a ball closer to your hands, you will have a better chance of getting better performance with the heavier bat.

Rob: Perfect. Let me get those again just so I make sure I identify them right. That is the B…

Rep1: So this is the B1 Senior League. We were looking at a 32/24 versus a 32/22.

Steve: There is a certain amount of science involved with it, but there is also a certain amount of confidence.

Rob: It is also feel.

Steve: …that I have the bat that gives me the confidence and I know I can hit anything.

Rob: Or at least you max your talent out and then it doesn’t matter how great, how specific it is to your situation.

Steve: Exactly. But it is all about confidence in the equipment you are using and you either have it or you don’t.

Rep1: Yeah. And then really very easily we have the same story in B1 and B2 adult baseball.

Rob: When you say adult baseball, that is anybody in high school, right? So is that ninth graders?

George: Well, yeah. High school and junior high for sure.

Rob: So after senior league they then graduate to these?

Rep1: You can’t say. It depends upon the town, right? In my town, our seventh and eighth graders, so that is basically junior high, they have to swing the minus 3. In some towns, they decided that…Hold on. Let’s back up.

What is little league baseball? You played minors, so you are seven and eight years old. And then you played majors and you are nine to 12 years old. And then if you are playing official Williamsport Little League and you play then what they call big league or senior league, you are 13-15 years old. Those kids are generally swinging minus 3’s. But in some areas, they are like, “Well it is OK to swing a minus 5.”

Rob: Why would they not want people to swing a minus five or a minus seven? Why do they have these rules to where they have to do a minus three? What is their logic?

Roy: Well they are also going to a bigger field. So the little league field is the smallest and then it gets gradually bigger.

Rep1: 60 foot base paths versus 90 foot base paths. I think the whole thing is preparing that kid to play adult baseball where he has to swing a minus three. So there are some areas where you go from a minus 12 to a minus three. It is a huge difference. I have no idea how a kid could make that translation except for the fact that he becomes a very poor hitter by the time he turns 13.

In other areas they are trying to build in a transition year. So Combat, as an example, makes a minus five. Other companies make sevens and eights.

Roy: Yeah. There are other companies that have minus fives, but the minus five is a real, real small category, which actually we never got any in.

Rep1: We haven’t made it. We don’t have any either.

Roy: For me, we sell it, because there are towns around here that they transition, and that is exactly what they are trying to do. They are trying to prepare; gradual increase. “OK. Here. You are in seventh and eighth grade. We will now go by negative five.” So in turn, from using a negative 10 to 13 you are kind of coming down, and then, again, going into high school it is a negative three.

Rep1: And then that begs the next question, “Why is negative three the magic number?” And that is because wood bats apparently are all about minus threes. So they wanted to make the synthetic bats, aluminum and composite, to more emulate the length and weight of a wood bat.

Rob: Because they are going to be using wood bats when they go pro.

Rep1: Never.

Steve: Well I was about to say one of them.

Rob: Yeah. One guy maybe.

Steve: Yeah. Out of several thousand.

Roy: Absolutely. We are 18 and under. We are high school and under. Do we sell some adult baseball? Yeah. Do I sell to the college kid that is going to the university of whoever? Heck no.

Rob: Why, because they get free bats?

Roy: Most of them are sponsored teams. Yeah. Are there some kids that get bats? Yeah, I mean…

Rep1: They will take a bat with them.

Roy: There are community colleges that are obviously not getting bats for free, so yeah the do. But truth be told, how many am I selling? Not a lot.

Rep1: And I think the bottom line is like I said. By the time next season rolls around it will all be worked out. There is no way that they could tell Easton that all of those new bats that are already on their way on the slow boat, turn the boat around and send them back. You have got to eat them! There is now way they could do that. So they will have to work it out.


We talk about the standards and everything that all these bats have to meet. That was addressed by ASA last year. We also talk about the bats performing better after they are broken in.

Because of safety, they are setting a standard that they bat cannot perform better than this standard. But of course they are testing a bat right off that wall with the wrapper peeled off, not after it has been broken in. And that is what the memo from the NCAA said, was they took the bats from all of the college teams after the world series and tested them all, and over 80% of them were performing above the standard.

Rob: So they are too hot.

Rep1: Right. And it is like, “Well no kidding!” Everybody knows that!

Rob: What about juicing bats? I have seen online where people have this machine, like a bat roller.

Rep1: Correct. That actually became part of the ASA standard, where they built into their test the test of the bat brand new and then after it was rolled. I guess Easton hast he clarity…If it has been rolled it changes color or something.

Roy: I heard from a guy that is real gung-ho on softball that they pop the thing off and they roll it, and it does change the color, but what they do is they get the paint to match the color and they spray-paint the inside of the bat.

But what I said was, “OK. I understand that. But it is freaking paint.” You can’t tell me from just hitting and hitting it is not going to flake away on the inside. But you know, where there is a will there is a way. These guys will find it. They will do anything to hit the ball an extra inch.

Rep1: I have got a buddy down in Georgia whose middle school daughters play. And they have got the pitching coach and the hitting coach and they throw everyday. They are probably very good players. I mean he helps coach the travel team. But yeah, he is like, “I definitely get all my bats rolled.” And every time I send him a bat he sends them to his guy.

Roy: So the minus 3 bats were similar to what we were looking at in the…

Rep1: Yeah, the same story as the B1 and B2 senior league.

Rob: And these are the adult baseball?

Rep1: Correct. Here you can’t really deal with barrel length because they are all the same weight versus barrels, so the barrels are the same size from B1 to B2.

Steve: So the differences between the B1 and the B2 are…

Rob: Materials.

Rep1: Yeah, the materials that they are manufactured with.

Rep1: I think that is where everybody with this company is hoping to get to, is to have, as Roy was saying, as those kids grow and get older, is to have an adult baseball bat that is as popular as the youth baseball bat.

Want to break down the other one, too?

Roy: The Morph?


Rob: Is fast pitch softball all female?

Rep1: No. There are definitely guys that play it in some parts of the country. I think there is also what is called modified softball, too, where that is pretty popular in the city of Philadelphia, as an example.

Slow pitch has got to have an arch. Fast pitch is the whole windmill thing. So modified is where you can throw it as hard as you can.

Rob: Like overhand like a baseball?

Rep1: No, without the windmill thing. Still underhand, but all you can do is go up to here. But yeah, I think I just…

Let’s go to the SGA website that just came out with the 2009 or 2008, one of the participation sports surveys that they do every year.

But yeah, when we are talking about fast pitch we are certainly concentrating on the girls.

Rob: Isn’t it like the fastest growing segment in the industry?

Rep1: Yeah. Certainly if you look at the participation. Girls playing sports in general is growing incredibly fast. And yeah, I would say fast pitch softball is probably growing faster than baseball participation. But baseball, I think, has been relatively strong; where I think a few years ago it had a little bit of a downturn. But I think it is back without a problem.

Rob: What ages are we looking at?

Rep1: Here we are looking at youth straight through college.

Rob: OK. So it is the same as with the boys.

Rep1: The product line two years ago…Let’s back up. In this line, we definitely have started with and have stuck with Virus technology. We described that Virus technology was building basically two bats and putting one inside the other.

Rob: With no space in between the walls.

Rep1: Correct. What that does is increases your durability, increases the working of the different layers to increase performance. The first year we had the Virus FP. It was kind of like a black and blue bat. We probably don’t have any left. It was our first high performing women’s fast pitch bat.

Then the ASA changed the rules. And the guts of the rules said that instead of a bat brand new having to meet a particular bat performance factor, it has to always be under that bat performance factor through the life of the bat. And they developed a test to try to emulate that.

Combat scientists said, “OK. Let me look at the test because that is what we have to deal with here.” We don’t really have to worry about anything else except passing the test. And while throughout the industry most people felt the bats were going to be dumbed down so that they could pass the new test, Combat said, “No problem. Our existing bat will pass that test.” And therefore the ASA, which is setting this standard, and the standard is an exit speed of 98 MPH, said that Roy, the manufacturers…Back that up.

They said that the manufacturers had to stop manufacturing bats on a particular date and had to be done selling them by a particular date. And then after that future date they could not longer sell any bats.

So everybody clamored to first make as many of the bats as they could, because everybody would perceive them as being more valuable, and then at the same time get rid of everything that they had.

The end user and the dealers, all of the old bats were grandfathered in.

Rob: What year was that?

Rep1: That was last year.

Roy: Remember when we were talking about all these numbers before?

Rob: Yeah.

Rep1: Combat feeling that they could pass the new test with their Virus FP therefore changed the paint job and the name so that it was a new bat. They basically told all of their sales staff that it is the same bat with the hopes that the end user would gravitate to this like they did the old one, feeling that because of our technology and the way we manufacture bats and all that stuff we talked about previously, that this bat would be every bit as good as the existing bat.

Rob: You are talking about the break in period on these?

Rep1: On the little league side it seemed as though the break in period on the Virus versus the non-Virus technology was longer. I am not particularly sure if because the ball is different the girls are not as strong or whatever. The break in period has not been an issue.

I told you about my buddy in Georgia. He loves his Virus fast pitch bats. And he said he was getting tremendous performance out of them. He called me six months later and he said he felt that the bat had been broken in. He said, “But now it is really hot!”

So apparently it continued to break in and get hotter the more he used it.

Rob: Is that something we can put on the website? Is that off the record…kind of, “A customer said…?”

Rep1: Sure. On everybody’s website are reviews from end users. I don’t know if anybody takes them to heart to be honest with you. I was reading all of the Combat B1 reviews the other day at JustBats. And I am like getting all pumped up: “What a great product I am selling!” And then I went to all the DeMarini reviews and boy, it was the hottest bat, too!

Everybody loved the CF3. And everybody that owned a CF3 loved the CF4 except for one guy who didn’t think that he got more value for the $50 that he spent extra.

And then same thing on the B1/B2 argument. Everybody loves the B1 and everybody thought the B2 was better.

Rep1: So we aligned ourselves with Lisa Fernandez. I am sure you know who Lisa Fernandez is. Lisa Fernandez, I guess, could be considered one of the greatest fast pitch players of all time. She was like the Babe Ruth, the best pitcher and the best hitter on the Olympic team. So I think she hit for the highest average and then also blew everybody away with 20 strikeouts out of 21 batters.

I think she won Olympic gold definitely in 2004. I would have to look at her bio to find out if she was around in 2000 when they won gold as well. She played at UCLA. If they didn’t win four Division 1 championships, then they won three. She was the cog in every one of them.

She is in the stage of her career where she is not playing at the Olympic level, an elite level, anymore. But she is associated with this PFX tour.

Rob: What is that?

Rep1: That is a tour that goes around and users professional fast pitch athletes to promote the sport.

Rob: So there is a professional fast pitch?

Rep1: There is a league. It is the NPF. So we aligned ourselves with Lisa as opposed to one of these girls that is playing on what is now the national team, because there is no longer an Olympic team, because it is not in the Olympics anymore, because we feel that she will be working with the youth of America, the future fast pitch players.

We have two bats that surround the Virus FP morphed. One is the Lisa Fernandez FP. We kind of called it the Lisa Fernandez gold; you know, gold medal. It is our highest performing girl’s fast pitch bat. Much better materials in the bat than the Morphed. Much longer barrel and greater sweet spot, but still using the Virus barrel within a barrel technology.

So this is the bat that our collegiate teams are swinging, of which we have now 13 fast pitch college programs.

Rob: Are those 100%?

Rep1: Right, with the biggest one being Texas Tech. Those are both considered high end bats, meaning $240 on up. We had Throttle fast pitch in the line, and I think still do. But the thought was that we always needed an entry level all composite girl’s fast pitch bat, and that is also new this year, the Lisa Fernandez light.

So what this gives us for the first time is the -10 and -12 drop and the price point where the younger girl that is just looking for a good quality bat would go out and purchase at a lighter weight. I have coined this as the B1 of girl’s fast pitch, because it is not the Virus technology. It basically is a B1 as far as I am concerned.

Roy: Are we talking material differences between the gold and the blue?

Rep1: Yes.

Roy: OK. But at the same time, the gold doesn’t come in 8, 9, and 10 drop, and doesn’t come in a 12, the gold.

Rep1: Correct. But this is also Virus, barrel within a barrel. Basically what you just described in makeup is the difference between a Morphed and the Gold; better quality materials, both Viruses, and actually they both come in the same drops. This is single barrel like a B1.

Roy: So what is the repetition? I don’t get the difference between the Morph and the Virus.

Rep1: I agree, and I think that is why the Morph is dead. And price wise it is $20 difference.

Rob: $20 less?

Rep1: No. This is $20 more, so everybody is going to want to buy that.

Roy: In reality Rob, the Morph I wouldn’t even bother with. To me it is meaningless, because at this point I think we have barely anything left, and I don’t even think we even ordered them going forward. So I think we are looking at the differences as being double wall, better material versus what we are considering just what I would call our B1 little leagueish kind of bat.

But this one comes in a 12 drop. This one does not, right? 10 is the lightest.

Rep1: Correct. This is your better travel team girl, your high school, and collegiate player, and this is going to be more of your youth younger player. Not that nine year olds aren’t going to buy this in a -10…

Roy: No. It is too heavy. You can’t handle it.

Rep1: And then you talked about perception and what people get used to. I told you the whole story about the FP versus the Morphed FP. And I have got guys that own them both who will definitely tell me the blue one is much better.

Rob: Well it is faster.

Rep1: I am like, “Well it is supposed to be the same bat!”

Rob: The paint…

Roy: It makes a difference.

Rob: The way the light reflects off. Shorter wavelength.

Roy: That is right.


Roy: $299 retail.

Rep1: It has got gear technology.

Rob: Is this the slow pitch?

Rep1: It was the slow pitch bat.

Steve: Slow pitch; is that strictly like adult leagues, men?

Roy: 34 inch only. Generally usually only men.

Steve: OK. There’s not like a youth slow pitch?

Roy: Even the girls, at like a younger age, they don’t throw the ball fast, the guys go, “Well she doesn’t play fast pitch. She is playing slow pitch.”

Rep1: Technically its not swinging a 34/28 end loaded.

Rob: So she is playing fast pitch!

Roy: Right.

Rob: But that bat, what is it? If that is going to be composite, is it…I don’t have any idea what the description of it is.

Rep1: It is gear. So it will have the gear technology.

Roy: Double wall?

Rep1: I am not even sure, to be honest with you. I don’t know if it is virus or not. I would imagine, because everything we have in the slow pitch line is at least double wall. It is essentially this and this is basically what I got. I should have sent you a copy.

Roy: Yeah. I got all that.


Rep1: What you guys need to do is get yourselves to Bat Wars.

Rob: What is that?

Rep1: Then you will have a whole new appreciation for Roy’s customer and what he gets involved in on a daily basis.

Roy: Bat Wars is a place where you go and you would think that Derek Jeter was playing there, and the guy just wants to pull his pants down and go like, “OK. Who wants to give me a little hand release now?” “Dude, you are a !@#$ing softball player. You are an idiot. Get back in your tow truck and go home!”

Rep1: Well as an example, August 3rd and August 10th there are back to back Bat Wars at Cooperstown Dreams Park. If you ever wanted to be a 12 year old little boy again, go to Cooperstown Dreams Park. I think there are 27 fields, each one of them beautifully manicured. They look like major league ball fields but they are all little league dimensions.

And Bat Wars is set up there. And what Bat Wars is is it is a relationship between an online an cataloguer, Eastbay, I don’t know if you guys get there catalogue, and a magazine. I guess Baseball Today or Softball Today, or Softball-one of those magazines.

And they will set up inflatable cages, bring in seven inflatable cages, seven Juggs Junior pitching machines, and people sit next to these machines in a fenced in box that has been, I guess, custom built for them, and they will just put balls in. And then every manufacturer sends them bats. And all the bats are just laying out there.

And kids wait in line. And basically the magazine is getting all of their contact information. And then they wait in line and they can pick up to three bats and go into the cage and hit a dozen balls. And then when they are done they can get back into the end of the line if they want and just do it as often as they want.

Rob: So it is a huge demo?

Rep1: Yeah, exactly. And Combat is actually not doing it this year. One of the reasons we are not doing it is because you could see the manufacturers that were providing bats that were not legal.

The one that I went to was so obvious. Reebok was coming through with this new technology with the holes in the bats. And every kid that picked up one of these Reebok bats and went into the cage was just hitting these freaking bombs like crazy. There is no way that it could have been a bat that would pass today’s standard.

Roy: Meanwhile, the bat is not even out there now.

George: Yeah. They never made it. It never happened. But it was overwhelmingly the bat of choice.

Rob: So they just did that to build buzz up?

Rep1: I am sure.

Rob: But do the real bat manufacturers do the same thing?

Rep1: They might. I don’t know if they are sending juiced bats or not.

Roy: It wouldn’t be the first time.

Rep1: They do baseball. They do youth. I don’t think they do a fast pitch. They definitely do slow pitch.

Roy: I would think it would be more important to hit it out on a field where you could see where the balls go.

Rep1: Oh, they are.

Roy: How quickly the ball comes off the bat…

Rep1: They are definitely using one of their fields, and there is a fence. They are definitely doing that. We had our sales meeting down in Florida at that Disney complex, and it was the end of the year USSSA world championships. So it was the major division, which is the 32 fast pitch teams that all have a lot of sponsorship money. They are kind of in their own category these days.

And then there was A, B, C, and D class men’s, women’s, and co-ed. So you can imagine. There are thousands and thousand of players. And there is a bat wars going on. There is a tournament going on. There is a little vendor village going on. It was actually a blast if it wasn’t 98 degrees and 98% humidity. It was hot.

But yeah. We joke. Guys drive up to the softball field with an old clunker, a 1998 Datsun that they paid $1,000 for, and he has got about $5,000 in his bat bag.

Rob: Get those priorities straight.

Rep1: That is his customer!

COMBAT EMPLOYEES ARE PLAYERS Rep1: The other thing behind combat is the fact that our motto is “For players by players.” So all of the people associated with the company are ballplayers. The girls in that work in the warehouse play softball. The sales manager is a softball player. Everybody is involved in the game.

A lot of the guys that play on our sponsored teams work in management in the company. And a lot of them are really good slow pitch softball players because they were all minor league baseball players at one time in their life.

So they are athletes passionate about what they are building and passionate about what they are doing. And as a sales guy, we have of course joked with the fact that they need something to do during the week in between tournaments, so they gave them a job. So that way they kept them on the team!

Rob: I don’t think I could get a job there.

Rep1: But yeah. It was a real eye opener going to that tournament. These guys…Since I played slow pitch I had never been to a game, and certainly not a game at that level. They were playing at the Atlanta Braves minor league complex, so it was a major league stadium. And they were hitting the ball over the scoreboard in center field. I’ve never seen the ball hit so hard in my life, and doing it every at bat.

And they would hit it and go a couple steps to first, and when it goes out they just walk back to the dugout. They don’t round the bases. If there is a guy on second, he just goes into the dugout. He doesn’t run home.

Rob: Too many homeruns.

Rep1: Yeah. I sort of got that if it doesn’t go out they are like, “Damn!”

----------- END OF ROY1.doc -----------


Roy: …presentation of what you are going to do. But at the same time, I want to interject in the last questions about the bats, because what we want is original content to put on the website, not just our basic verbatim definition that is out of the catalogue.

Easton Flex vs. Stiffness

EASTON GUY: Let’s do it with this bat. OK. This is the Stealth Speed. It is a two piece composite bat. It has a connector. The reason for the connector is to…

Roy: Right. OK. Now. What is the difference between the two bats?

EASTON GUY: This one is a 75 Flex and this one is a 95 flex.

Roy: What does 75 flex mean?

EASTON GUY: That is has more flex. The composite is…

Roy: So for example, a 75 flex is more flexible, more whippy, than an 85 flex.

Rob: What does whippy mean?

EASTON GUY: What is going to happen with this bat is that this has a connector on it. This is the Stealth Speed with the 75 flex. What it does is it is basically a two piece composite bat with a connector here.

If you are a big power hitter, you don’t want to have too much flex in your bat because it is going to drag behind in the strike zone. If you are a big guy and you are swinging the bat, when you swing…If you saw this in slow motion you would see the bat…This handle is going to…

Roy: Bow. Or bend.

EASTON GUY: Right. Now if you have a strong swing and you swing hard, the thing is going to flex more than this one. You can see kind of almost how this one is a little bit thinner.

Rob: So what part of the bat is that?

EASTON GUY: This is the handle.

Rob: OK. So at the top of the handle it is thinner?

EASTON GUY: No. It is over here. Our flex point…The great thing about our bat is, see, our flex point is up here. So we have a flex point…

Rob: So it is higher on the bat than competitor bats.

EASTON GUY: Correct. What happens is when you have a higher flex point, the bat is not going to drag through the strike zone. To make it even better we have the connector here. What the connector does is the connector…It is a kick point.

So what is going to happen is when you swing this bat, it is going to flex. And then because there is a connector here, and it is like a two piece deal. See how it is two pieces? When they make the bat, they cut this and they drop the handle through the middle. Then they put the rubber connector on.

It gives you a flex point. So what is going to happen is it is going to hit, it is going to flex, and then the barrel is going to kick forward to give you more bat speed.

Rob: Is it like a spring?

EASTON GUY: No. It is a rubber piece. It is two pieces so it gives it more flex.

Rob: So two pieces of metal and a piece of rubber in between?

EASTON GUY: Take this bat and step on it. Look how much this thing flexes. See that? If I take this one, and this one is a 90 flex, I have to press harder, but it is still going to flex. It is a composite bat, so it is still going to flex, but I have to press harder on it.

Roy: That transfer of energy from swinging a stiff bat, if you are physically capable of swinging a stiff bat, that energy that you are going to produce going through, that kick point, is going to generate more hit speed and more bat speed, hopefully translating into a harder hit, further distance, and that type of thing.

Rob: So more energy goes from the bat into the ball when it is a stiffer bat.

Roy: Right. So if you are a slighter build kid…

EASTON GUY: If I am getting up there and Roy is getting up there, I don’t have a lot of bat speed. I am not a big guy. I play softball. Most people are like me. They are going to go with more flex.

Rob: An average hitter or a normal hitter is going to use a bat with more flex because they can’t swing the stiff bat? Is it heavier?

EASTON GUY: No. It just won’t give me as much…

Rob: You can’t get the advantage out of it.

EASTON GUY: Exactly. I can swing both these bats. This bat is going to give me more flex. It is going to get through the strike zone faster.

Rob: The 75 is?

EASTON GUY: Yes. The higher the number, the less flex. So if you showed me in slow motion taking cuts in a cage with this bat and with this bat, you will see the bat head on this bat get through the strike zone quicker than this bat. This bat is going to lag a little bit for me.

Roy: So it is almost like custom fitting the bat for the particular style player.

EASTON GUY: And then you add in that this is made out of composite and it is not made out of aluminum.

How Easton Makes Bats

Now when you make a composite bat, what they do is they lay it out like a piece of cloth. So they cut it. Composite is completely man made. So they can really take the composite and make the composite any way they want to make it. They take whatever minerals and whatever ore, or whatever they put in it.

They make it to their specifications. It is completely man made. So when they make it, it is a sheet. They take it and they…

Rob: Make a sock or something?

EASTON GUY: No, they cut it. Like when you see a seamstress making garments, they cut this pattern. Then what they do is they roll it and they heat it. And they roll it and it heats, and heats, and heats until they get it to where they want to get it.

So this started out as one piece. There are no seams on it. I mean you can’t see anything…well you can probably see one if you looked for it. And then they put the end cap on and they put the butt cap on.

Rob: So it is like fiberglass or carbon or whatever the materials are?

EASTON GUY: Yeah. It can be carbon, fiberglass, there is glass in here. Whatever is in here, that is how they make this bat. When they make an aluminum bat, aluminum bats are {?extruded}.

Rob: From a sheet of aluminum?

EASTON GUY: No. It is a big tube, a huge tube. And then they put it through this machine, and they keep putting it through and putting it through until they get it to be exactly where they want to get it.

Now aluminum is also manmade, but they can’t control the flexibility and the flex points and the composition as well as they could with the composite.

Rob: Right, because it is one atom. It is just aluminum.

EASTON GUY: There are additives, and they put things in here to make the composition different. They can change the composition, but they can’t change as much as they can change composite…They can actually almost like build this how they want to build it. They can change the flex points on here. They can really do whatever they want, which also makes a composite bat…You are going to have more of a sweet spot on a composite bat.

Rob: So is the material different in the barrel than it is in the handle?

Roy: It is exactly the same.

EASTON GUY: This is kind of what the pattern looks like.

Rob: Like a weave?

EASTON GUY: That goes throughout; they just put a graphic on it which covers this.

Rob: Is that white paint there?

EASTON GUY: They do a paint finish that has got a clear finish over it. So basically this is painted and then there is a clear finish over the paint.

Roy: So for example, just to get back to the other two speed bats, same bat except for they have the different flexes.

Rob: What causes the flex? Is it the flex point or is it the material that the bat is made out of?

EASTON GUY: Both. To change the flex, it is more of where the flex point is and how…With these two bats, if they flex points are over here, maybe they put a little bit less carbon in here or less glass, and that is what makes it more flexible. Or maybe they thin it out on the inside a little bit. It all depends on how they build it.

Rob: But the material is different. Like different ingredients?

EASTON GUY: No. It is the same composite. It is more how they build it.

Rob: I think it is more important that people know that only certain types of people can use a stiff bat and benefit from it.

EASTON GUY: Not that they can’t use it…Maybe I like using a stiffer bat. That is why they make it. A guy like me could use this bat. I won’t get as much bat speed, but maybe I get a little bit more power.

Roy: I think the way to describe it is you will benefit greater in using that bat that is more for your strength. If you are a big strong guy, the stiffer bat will enhance your swing, your ability…

Rob: Because it will get across the plate faster and more energy will be transferred to the ball?


Roy: Absolutely, as opposed to swinging that bat that is going to be a little bit more whippy.

Rob: Can a big guy tell a difference when he is swinging the two bats?

EASTON GUY: He probably could. If you are a college player you definitely could. If you are a kid who is playing rec baseball and he comes in here to buy the bat…

Rob: Right, but you are saying a top 1% type player would be able to…Blindfolded, he can tell the difference between…

EASTON GUY: Absolutely.

Roy: So those two top of the line bats…I mean, yeah. The difference is flex. That is it.

Rob: I think y’all explained flex to where I understand it. But I want to do a video of that later.

EASTON GUY: They are both composite. And again, they have a bigger sweet spot.

Rob: When you say they, the family? Both of those bats have a bigger sweet spot?

EASTON GUY: A composite bat is going to have a bigger sweet spot.

Rob: Oh, just by definition?

EASTON GUY: A composite bat is…

Rob: Even if the shape is exactly the same as an aluminum bat…

EASTON GUY: If I hit a ball over here…

Rob: Now what part of the bat is that?

EASTON GUY: That is the lower part of the barrel. I am not going to hit the ball as good as if I hit it in the meat of the barrel, but you can still hit the ball and…

On an aluminum bat we have what is called the O-zone. This is an aluminum barrel and a composite handle. So we can control the flex with the handle over here, but the barrel is aluminum.

Rob: What bat is that?

EASTON GUY: This is the SB-12. The sweet spot here…We kind of define where it is on the bat. The sweet spot is from here to here. That is called the O-zone and that is the sweet spot of the bat.

This bat is a solid composite bat.

Rob: When you mean solid, do you mean one piece?

EASTON GUY: One piece. See how this has the connector? So this is a two piece connector and this is one piece composite. By definition, a one piece bat is going to have less flex than a two piece bat.

So this one is 75. This one is 95.

Rob: With a connector. That one is 90 without?

EASTON GUY: Right. This is 90 without. So this is solid composite no connector. Again, when you swing our bats the flex point is going to be about here. My competitors, when you swing their bats, their flex point is going to be above their hands.

Rob: In a wood bat, where is the flex point?

EASTON GUY: Down here right above their hands. Wood bats have a lot of whip.

Roy: Just as a comparison, just to interject, this bat, which is the BCM 1 one piece composite bat, it would be comparable to last year’s BZN 1; same bat, different graphic. So 2010, 2009.

EASTON GUY: What we do and what most companies do notoriously when the new bat comes out, a lot of times for two or three years it will be the exact same bat with a different name and a different graphic.

Rob: So is it like cars where they have a model year and they will introduce a new Mustang…?

EASTON GUY: It is not even like that. In the Mustang they will put a new radio in and change the interior colors. Here it is like this bat is exactly the same bat as last year, but just different colors; different name, different color.

Roy: The first two, the BSS 1 and BSS 2, we would compare with the BCN 9. However, in the BCN 9 they have pieces left, so it is really not…

EASTON GUY: But also, with the Hit Matrix bat we only had one flex. We didn’t have two. We went to flexes this year. We only had one flex last year. So this is solid composite.

EASTON GUY: Now this is an Aluminum barrel, notice the difference in the sound. Big difference. Now some people will buy the bat just because they like the ping. A traditional person who likes an aluminum bat, they like to hear that sound. They like to hear that ping sound. With the composite bat it is more of a thud. Other people like the thud better. It sounds like a wood bat more than traditional aluminum.

With the aluminum bats it is the same thing. We have two different flexes. We have a 65 and a 90.

Rob: Are those exactly the same shape?

EASTON GUY: Same shape.

Rob: And the flex comes from the way they…

EASTON GUY: If you look at it, the handle is going to be a little bit different. It is really not noticeable. This handle might be a little bit thinner, but you really can’t tell, though.

Rob: But the difference in the flex comes from the engineering on the inside?

EASTON GUY: Right. So this is going to be more flex, less flex. Same story as this except you have an aluminum barrel and you have a composite handle.

Rob: What model numbers are those, the 90...?

EASTON GUY: This is the SV-12.

Rob: And that is a 65?

EASTON GUY: Yes. BSB 2 and BSB 3.

Roy: The BSB 2 is the SV 12. That is the same bat. And then the BSV 3 is also the SV 12, just with a different flex.

Rob: So what is SV 12? Is that like the family?

EASTON GUY: V 12 is the alloy they use to make the aluminum.

Rob: So is that the family or the model…? That is confusing to me as a consumer, because it is like there are four different names on a bat sometimes.

EASTON GUY: Look at it this way. If you look at the composite bats…

Roy: Isn’t it for scandium?

EASTON GUY: Yeah, that is probably what it is.

Roy: S stands for Scandium, which is the grade of aluminum they make the bat out of. V-12 is kind of towards the brand?

EASTON GUY: Yeah. Well if you look at it this way, Stealth’s are going to be the two piece composite bats.

Rob: How many different Stealth bats are there, four?

EASTON GUY: There are two in the -3’s. They Synergy bat is the one piece composite. So Synergy, one piece, Stealth, two piece. I always remember SV 12 and V 12 because SV, it’s SV. Then we have the solid aluminum bat which is the green one up there. That is the V 12. So SV has two pieces. SV is two letters; SV-two piece. V-12-one piece.

The SV-12 comes in two flexes. Aluminum, composite, and with connector. And then you have the V-12, which is the green one up there, which is solid aluminum. Same alloy as this, but one piece.

Roy: I think it is the same story. In the SV-12’s you have the BSV 2 and the BSV 3, and the difference is flex, similar to the Stealth bats that we did where the BSS 1 and BSS 2, basically those are composite shaft, composite barrel. These are just composite shafts, metal barrel. And then again, two different flexes.

EASTON GUY: As far as, “Hey, what do I want? Do I want a composite or aluminum? What is better?” I have always felt personally that the composite bats hit better. That is my own personal feeling in seeing stuff hit. But there are a lot of people that prefer the aluminum to the composite. They like the way the bat feels. They like the ping of the barrel. They think the ball goes further on the aluminum.

They are all BSR certified, so they all have to be legally…

Roy: They are under the speed limit?

EASTON GUY: Right. They are at the BSR. You can’t say that one is a much better bat because it is way above the BSR. It is not. They are all the same.

Rob: And they are all engineered to be just enough to pass?


Rob: So they are as hot as they can be without being too hot?

EASTON GUY: They are as hot as they can be. So again, it is all preference. To me this is the bat.

Rob: Who would use these bats?

EASTON GUY: These are -3 bats, so these can be anywhere from like high school, college, or maybe like a 13, 14 year old travel team where they need to use -3’s, or a junior high school league where they need to use -3’s.

So these are like adult baseball bats.

Roy: Again, to go back to a comparison with the BSV 2 and BSV 3, we compare the last year’s BSV 1, which is also an SV 12 bat but it is just in an ‘09. It is the same thing, just from last year.

This year they give you two different flexes, where last year they didn’t have a flex. But again, for all intents and purposes you can compare the 2010 to that 2009 bat. So that is a good comparison to say…

Rob: Sure. Well how many different bats can a player choose from as far as -3?

EASTON GUY: It depends on a couple of things. A, how much money do you want to spend?

Rob: Say he wants the best bat for what he is doing.

EASTON GUY: Say I am 6’6” and I am a big power hitter, and I really like using composite. Well I am going to go with this one.

Rob: But in the baseball bats that are -3, are there six bats?

EASTON GUY: As far as Easton? Those are what I consider the high end bats. There are six of them.

Rob: Do you guys do good, better, best as far as families?

EASTON GUY: Here is the thing. It all depends on what you feel comfortable with.

Rob: But as far as price points.

EASTON GUY: These three.

Rob: So the Synergy, the Stealth Speed…

EASTON GUY: The composite bats. You might want to say by composite, by aluminum composite, and by aluminum. These three are the same price.

Rob: So three different buckets of bats.

EASTON GUY: Right. There are three different price points, one, two, and three.

Rob: What is retail?

Roy: $400, $300, $200.

Rob: What is the $400?

EASTON GUY: These are $400.

Roy: The BSS 1 and the BSS 2 are $400. The BCM 1 is $400. The BSV 2 and BSV 3 are $300. And the BV 2 is just a regular straight wall aluminum bat at $200.

EASTON GUY: Which some people actually prefer.

Rob: But they could have made that bat 10 years ago, right?

EASTON GUY: Not with that aluminum. That V-12 alloy was not available 10 years ago. The alloys that we use in the bats, like this V-12 alloy is…Every two years, pretty much, they come out with a new alloy. The whole goal is to make the bats thinner, more durable, not crack or dent easily, and not break down as much.

Rob: But still hit up to the edge of as hot as it can be without being too hot.

EASTON GUY: If you have an aluminum alloy that breaks down and gets soft, and you spent $200, you are not going to be very happy.

Rob: So how many hits do you have?

EASTON GUY: There is no answer to that. It depends on, like a car, how hard do you drive your car? How many miles can you get out of a car? You can have a car for 40 years and drive it on Sundays to church and come back, or you can drive 250 miles a day.

Rob: But because of warranties it is reasonable to assume…

EASTON GUY: It is warrantied for 400 days.

Rob: Is that a marketing thing?

EASTON GUY: We say 400 days because nobody is going to use a bat all year.

Rob: So that overlaps the season?

EASTON GUY: By a little bit. Yes, a kid is going to buy this bat and then he will play summer, travel, and then maybe a high school season, and then he will play on in a winter league or taking hitting lessons during the winter, but a lot of times if you take hitting lessons you are not going to use your game bat when you are hitting in the cage. You just spent $400 on a bat. You are going to use your old bat.

Rob: Special occasions?

EASTON GUY: You use it for games only. And then you have another bat that you use in the cage. And then you use your old bat, and then you use this one again until this one is kind of...You feel that it is dead. Everybody has got their own feeling about the bat; the bat is dead, the bat is not dead.

Rob: It is so subjective?

EASTON GUY: It is so subjective. Say a kid is hitting this bat great and then all of a sudden he goes into a slump. He will say, “OK. It is probably the bat. I gotta get a new bat. This bat is dead. Dad this bat is dead. I need a new bat.” That is generally what happens. Would you agree?

Roy: Yeah.

EASTON GUY: Sometimes a bat will crack or it will dent or something will happen physically to the bat. That is something completely different. Composite bats crack. Aluminum bats also can crack and dent.

Rob: How does the return process work?

EASTON GUY: You buy a bat, you have it for a week, you swing it, and the bat breaks in half. You have to contact Easton directly at the warranty replacement department and then send the bat back and they send you a new bat.

Rob: How long does that take?

EASTON GUY: It could be anywhere from a day, which I had happen to me last week, to a couple weeks. I had a guy whose son was going down to North Carolina to play in a college showcase tournament. He has the Synergy Speed and it cracked. It was actually a friend of mine from town who I sold it to.

He said, “Listen. I need this bat. He is going away.” So he said, “I will pay for the overnight and everything.” So I called him up and they just overnighter him the bat.

Rob: Bats don’t have serial numbers, so how do you know that somebody got the bat…They would have to have a receipt. Does it have to be from a licensed…?

EASTON GUY: For us it has got to be from an authorized Easton dealer. It can’t be from eBay. It can’t be from Paypal. It has got to be It has got to be Bob’s sport shop or whatever. It has got to be an authorized Easton dealer.


Roy: George, let’s move to senior league.

EASTON GUY: Senior league bats, the bats are pretty much…When you are talking about composition and you are talking about…And it will be the same with the little league bats also. It is the same theory. They are the same.

What senior league bats is they are like a tweener.

Rob: By that you mean the age?

EASTON GUY: Compared between the -3 market and the little league market, it is a very small market. A lot of times it is centralized to certain areas of the country. Where like in Long Island, these bats are pretty much non-existent. They either play with little league or they play with -3.

That is just the way the rules are out there. I always look at the senior league business as the Wild West. Because with the -3 bats there is a control on it with high school and with college. They will tell you that you have to use a -3 bat. Here is what you can use. They tell you. Most of the other organizations that run youth baseball, Pony League, Cal Ripken, little league, Dixie League, USSSA, they have their own standards, but for the most part everything follows along with little league’s.

Little league has really strict standards, so mostly everybody else says, “Hey, if it is good for little league, then we are good with it.” Sometimes they like to get a little bit of a money hit, so USSSA will say, “Hey, you have to put USSSA on the bat. You can’t use it unless you put it on the bat, and we are going to charge you to use the logo.

So that youth baseball market, which is like from four or five up until 12, is pretty much set in stone.

Rob: Because of whatever little league does.

EASTON GUY: And the high school, college market is set in stone because of NFHS and the NCAA says this is what it is. That is kind of set in stone. That little area which is like travel all, 10-13, is like the Wild West.

There are all kinds of little leagues going on. A guy in New Jersey started his own league. There is ABC, there is Cal Ripken, there is senior little league. Each league plays with different rules, and each league in each town plays with different rules.

Roy: So diameter of barrel and weight ratio, inch to ounce ratio, varies.

EASTON GUY: These are like the Bam-Bam bats. These are big barrel bats that are really light; -10’s. These are bats that generally will have a really big barrel and they are really short, and very light.

You might even have it where you are playing in a league and you can’t use a big barrel bat. But then when you get to a tournament they allow the big barrel bats in the tournaments.

Rob: So what types of players would be using these? Are these like the serious players who are going to travel ball?

EASTON GUY: Most of these bats are pretty much…You are done with little league. Then by attrition, the kids that aren’t really big players are going to drop out. These are the kids that are mostly playing summer and travel. This is mostly a travel ball club ball bat.

Roy: However, in certain pockets of the country, like in the South, at a young age, 7 or 8 years old, some of them do use a big barrel bat.

EASTON GUY: it is like the Wild West. It is like I can’t tell you, “Hey high school kids are all going to use BSR certified -3.”

Rob: It totally depends on…

Roy: Where you are, what league you are in…

Rob: That is why it is hard to pinpoint.

EASTON GUY: That is why I call it the old west. There is no rhyme or reason for…I could be in Wayne, New Jersey and there are two senior leagues going on. ABC says, “Hey, you can use these.” And then on the other side of town they have a Cal Ripken that says you can’t use them.

Rob: But the consumer knows what they can use and can’t use based on the league that they are in.

EASTON GUY: They will tell you, “Hey we don’t allow senior league 2 5/8 inch barrel -10’s. You can’t use them. You have to use -3’s,” or you can only play with -5.

Rob: So on the website now we call them…

Roy: Senior league.

Rob: But if they can’t use…But those are the big barrel…?

Roy: Right. We don’t define like, “Hey, if you are in such and such you can use this.”

EASTON GUY: Generally, what they will do is they will go by -5,-10...They will say, “Hey, you are not allowed to use -10 bats in this league. You can use a big barrel, but you can’t use -10. You have to use -5’s.”

Roy: We can’t define what you need to use. They have to define it for themselves, because there is just so much from town to town, state to state what they use that we can’t define it. We supply it in different weight ratios, like this bat is a -5, this bat is a -8, this bat is a -9...

EASTON GUY: Like this bat might come in a -5 version and a -10 version.

Rob: So would it make sense in the senior league bat section to have sub-sections based upon drop, and have like all the -5’s together?

EASTON GUY: If somebody is shopping by -5 or -10, yes.

Rob: So shopping by drop might be a….

Roy: I like that. Ignore that man behind the curtain.

EASTON GUY: Comment from the peanut gallery!

Rob: Shop by Drop. That is my trademark, by the way.

Roy: What we have here is we have a sheet. And when we say, “Where are you playing or do you know what your drop is?” we have it broken down as, “Hey, here are our senior league bats,” but we also have it broken down by drop; 10, 9, 9.5, 8.5, 8, 5...

So right here in this vicinity, in this immediate area, which is not popular anywhere, we do a lot of -5’s. So when somebody comes in and says, “I want a -5,” we go, “OK. Here are your seven choices.” That’s it.

Rob: OK. But that would be really helpful on the website, I think.

Roy: I think so.

EASTON GUY: You know what I would do, too, on the website? On the title I would write what the barrel is and what the drop is, and obviously it is in descending price order, but we want to make sure that they don’t start opening up bats going, “Oh S#!%. I can’t use this one because it is -9.” Before they click on it, I want to let them know like, “Oh, I can’t use this one. Oh, this one is a consideration. OK. Here is another one.”

Rob: Another thing is barrel size and drop.

EASTON GUY: We wanted to make only the 2 5/8 inch barrels on these.

Roy: 2 ¾ inch barrel bats are not the norm now. They are getting away from that. Are there some out there? Yes. Do we have some? Yes. Most of them are last year’s bats.

Rob: Are these wider?

Roy: Wider. It is 2 ¾ and 2 5/8, so that eighth of an inch difference is the difference between the two. I would say by next year you are probably going to see all 2 ¾ bats go away. And actually, your 2010 line has no 2 ¾.


Rob: Because they are not legal in certain…?

EASTON GUY: Well they see the trend and they are selling way less. Most of the leagues probably say, “Hey, -10, 2 5/8. -5, 2 5/8.” So most of the leagues have been getting away from the 2 ¾ and they pretty much agreed that they should be doing 2 5/8 inch, not 2 ¾.

So just by dumb luck, that is probably how it is working out, and they probably looked at what is going on, and they looked at theirselves ad said, “Hey, we are selling four to one 2 5/8 inch to 2 ¾. Let’s just not make them.”

Rob: So by itself the industry is moving towards that. It is not being forced by some government…

EASTON GUY: Not the industry, the leagues which in turn are driving the manufacturers to do 2 5/8. I could see this category, in a few years, going away, personally. I think they will come out with certified -3’s. And I think that at some point in the next 5-7 years this will be eliminated.

Rob: But in senior league bats, it is the same issues we were talking about on the regular bats, as far as the composite versus the hybrid versus the all aluminum, and then one piece versus two piece?

EASTON GUY: They look graphically the same. It is the same bat. It is just structured different. It is full composite. Has the 90 flex on it. Same bat. And the little league bat is going to be the same bat also.

Rob: Is it the same shape?

EASTON GUY: No. It has got a bigger barrel. It is a shorter bat. I mean this is a 32 inch at, but this is a -10.

Roy: Can you put a definition on the flex rating? For example, if I am looking at a number and it is a 90 flex rating. Is there a definition of, “Hey it is a 90 flex. That means that the bat will flex one inch per 90 pounds of pressure.”

EASTON GUY: I don’t know that there is a technical…You would have to call like Matt Arn. He might be able to give you that information. I don’t know that there is a technical…There is not a chart that says this and this.

Roy: What we can say though is the higher number the stiffer the bat.

EASTON GUY: 100 is the stiffest.

Roy: Right. Higher the number, stiffer the bat.

Rob: Is there a 100?

EASTON GUY: Yeah. We have an aluminum at that is 100.

Rob: And that one up there is a 90?

EASTON GUY: 65 is the least, which is going to be this bat. The SV-12 aluminum barrel, composite handle is going to be the…Basically, this…The aluminum might swing a little bit lighter than the composite, so it is going to make it a little bit more flex.

Roy: What is VRS rating and hitting area rating?

EASTON GUY: VRS rating is the vibration. So on a…

Rob: Is that for sting?

EASTON GUY: Yeah. I should have mentioned that. With a connector this is going to reduce the vibration.

Rob: Is that the main benefit of the connector?

EASTON GUY: No. It will reduce vibration and it gives you a kick point to the bat. The flex is really going to be in the handle. So if you saw it in slow motion, you would see this thing flex and the barrel is going to snap through. So it is going to kind of kick through. This is basically like a hinge. So it is going to flex, hinge, snap through.

Rob: So the connector is a hinge?

EASTON GUY: That is basically what it is. It is a hinge that is going to kick the barrel through. But what it does because of the rubber is it is going to reduce the vibration.

Rob: Is that like a secondary benefit?

EASTON GUY: That is one of the primary benefits. Getting technical again, when you swing a bat in cold weather, this is not going to help you.

Rob: How cold?

EASTON GUY: Out here, when the kids start playing, they start going out on the field like in March. It is going to 45 or 50 degrees out. The thing is going to sting like a mother. It is not going to help. Bats need to be warm when you swing them.

Rob: So do y’all make a bat heater?

EASTON GUY: We don’t. Other guys do.

Rob: Do they really? I was just kidding.

EASTON GUY: Basically, what you do when you are going up to bat and it is cold, is you stick it between your freaking legs or sit on it.

Rob: Does the affect the performance of the bat, the temperature of the bat?

EASTON GUY: Absolutely. Like anything, an alloy or aluminum is going to contract or expand depending on the temperature. So when it is hot out it is going to expand. It is going to make it more elastic.

Rob: So there is more flex when it is hotter?

EASTON GUY: Exactly. A lot of times they will put in there not to use under 60 degrees or something. With a composite, if it gets cold you have more of a chance of cracking a composite bat or denting an aluminum one. If you went outside in 35 degree weather to swing, chances are you are probably going to dent your bat.

But that is why, again, with a brand new expensive bat, you are not going to do that. If a kid wants to go out back and hit balls with his father when it is 35 degrees, you do it with a piece of S#!% bat.

Roy: Just to get back to the product for senior league, in the Speed bats you have one that is a -10, the BSS 11.

EASTON GUY: You probably couldn’t tell a difference between a little league bat and a senior bat or a softball bat.

Rob: The drops and stuff are very confusing.

EASTON GUY: My daughter plays fast pitch softball and I want to go buy her a bat, let’s say. If I didn’t know anything about bats, I wouldn’t know why that bat is different than this bat.

Rob: They are both 32 inch bats.

Roy: Why can’t they use this for softball? What is wrong with this for softball?

Rob: What is the main difference in the $400 bat and the $200 bat for adult baseball? The materials in the $400 bat are more expensive?

Roy: I will tell you what I think it is. The story is probably that it costs more to make the composite. I mean it probably does take more to produce the composite, research it, make it, engineer it, produce it, and sell it than the aluminum.

But I think a lot of times, and I don’t know this for a fact, but my feeling is that, “Hey. It is a composite. It is something different. We can charge more money because it is a composite and not aluminum.”

You have heard sometimes products that they charge less for and then the product that they are making that they are charging more for and it costs them less money to make the more expensive one that it does the second tier one.

Roy: Yeah. Maybe it cost them $20 to make an aluminum bat. It maybe costs them $15 to make the composite bat. But they are going to charge you $400 for this one and $300 for that just because, hey, it is composite.

Rob: That is what the market will bear.

Roy: Last year what they did…They screwed up big time. We had this thing called Hit Matrix last year. All the bats are the same price. Basically it backfired on them because the story has always been, “Hey, the two piece composite bat is the best bat on the market,” which I still think it is.

But this is an all aluminum bat and we are going to charge $400 for each one because there is a hitting system. They are all really good…

Rob: Depending on how you hit; what type of hitter you are.

Roy: So basically the way it worked out…And every dealer felt, “Why the hell are you ripping me off?”

Rob: They were boosting the price of what would have been the cheaper bats.

Roy: They were charging a dealer like $275 for that and then the dealers were charging $400. This year, that same bat that they were charging $275 for, now it is $105. And now it is $200 retail.

So now you know how much they were ripping everybody off.

Rob: But they were trying to make everything equal?

Roy: They were saying that because of the hitting system…This explains it pretty well. Composite, composite, solid/composite. Aluminum/composite, solid aluminum. Up top you have two pieces. On the bottom you have one piece.

This really kind of explains it. This will tell you exactly how it works.

Rob: Explain like the difference between clutch instinct reaction velocity. Are those just marketing names?

Roy: Those are just words. On the composite bat you get more of the hitting area and more of an energy transfer because of the two piece and you get the vibration.

If you go down, you get the same hitting area as that other one, and you are going to get more balance because there is no flex.

Rob: So it is a stiffer bat?

Roy: Yeah, and you get more solid feel.

Rob: Which one was that?

Roy: That is the solid composite.

Rob: But what is the brand?

Roy: That is the Synergy. That is the white one now. These are last year’s bats. Then you go to the SV-12. It is an aluminum barrel and a composite handle. You are going to get better bad speed because that is the lightest bat. You are going to get the transfer because it is a two piece bat. You are going to get the VRS, the vibration control, because of the connector.

And then the bottom one is solid aluminum. It is going to be control…

Rob: So stiffness is more control?

Roy: Yes. So you get stiffness, more solid, and you are going to get more bat speed.

And then the bottom one is solid aluminum. It is going to be control…

Rob: So stiffness is more control?

Roy: Yes. So you get stiffness, more solid, and you are going to get more bat speed; lots of bat speed for a power hitter.

Rob: Can you walk me through those…In the first one, the Clutch, the CXM composite. The massive hitting area comes from it being a composite bat. It has a larger sweet spot. And then max energy transfer is because it is a two piece bat and not a one piece bat.

EASTON GUY: Because of the hinge, when you swing you transfer the energy.

Rob: And the ultimate vibration reduction comes…

EASTON GUY: Because of that VRS, that rubber piece there reduces the vibration. The top two will have the VRS reduction and the bottom two wont because they are one piece.

Rob: And then if you go over to the reaction, the difference between it and the clutch is that…

EASTON GUY: One has got a composite barrel and one has got an aluminum barrel. And one is going to have more flex. One is a 65 and one is a 75. They have both got the Hit Matrix.

Rob: So the main difference between the Clutch and the reaction is that the top half of the bat is composite versus aluminum…

EASTON GUY: And the flex is bigger. The bottom two are both one piece. One is composite, one is aluminum.

Roy: They did get away from doing that, though.

Rob: I can see what the benefits are…

EASTON GUY: No, they didn’t really get away from it. We still have it, we just changed the prices. The only different Hit Matrix they added, they just added a stiff flex on the those top ones, those top two. They thought, “Hey we want to have a little bit less flex,” so they added one to that one and they added one bat to the top one. The two bottom bats are exactly the same.

Rob: But the Hit Matrix helps me understand…Those are the benefits. If you tie the benefits to the feature, which we have done for the past hour, but seeing it in one spot is helpful. So I think I might mix up something like that.

EASTON GUY: That is the deal with the senior league bats. And then little league bats, I don’t know if you can bring them down. They are just…

Roy: Well I think we discussed this yesterday. Again, skip the top ones for the moment. The Speed bats, basically you are looking at them as -9, -11, -8, and -13.

Rob: So the only difference is the drops?

EASTON GUY: Correct. And again, depending on where you are playing and what is popular, I sell a lot more -13’s. The -9 is a power hitter bat. I sell the least…I mean I sell 13, 11, and 9.

Roy: You have really got to be a big strong kid to swing the -9.

Rob: So as the drop drops, it is a heavier bat?

EASTON GUY: So let’s just pick 30 inches. 30 inches and a -13 is 17 ounces. -11 is 19 and -9 is 21.

Roy: Those two ounces are going to make a difference. But most kids are like wimpy kids. They can’t swing a bat. So they want the less bat they can swing…

Rob: Faster bat speed?

EASTON GUY: Little bit more control. Keep in mind, when you are playing little league they are 45 feet away pitching. I mean they are on top of you almost. So the ball is there quickly.

Roy: Then you have the SV-12’s. The V-12, it is a lot different this year because of the price structures. The V-12 is now more of a price point bat. It is a solid aluminum bat. It has turned into like a price point bat. Remember when I was telling you that last year they were all the same price? The SV-12 and the V-12 have turned into a price point.

So the parent might say, “I don’t want to spend the money on the composite. The SV-12 is a connection bat. We will spend a little bit less money. We will spend $50 less on that one.” They get that one instead.

Rob: Then what are the other ones?

Roy: Those are last year’s bats. The Synergy is from last year.

EASTON GUY: But what we will do is we will match those. I am going to match those up.

Rob: I think on the website we should have a place to where if there is a last year’s version of this, or two year’s ago version of this…

Roy: You could put like, “This year’s Synergy is this price. Also available is last year’s model at this price. Compare this and that, and…”

EASTON GUY: Again, everything kind of follows suit all the way down. And then when you get to softball, softball is a little bit different. Only because in men’s slow pitch softball…


EASTON GUY: A men’s slow pitch softball bat could also be used for modified. We play slow pitch softball which is a high arc. Then we play, especially in this part of the country, a lot of modified, which is the guys can throw straight and throw fast, but not as fast as the women in fast pitch.

But a men’s bat is a men’s bat. Most men never use a slow pitch bat.

Rob: And they are all the same length?

EASTON GUY: They are all 34 inches.

Rob: Why do they do that? I played on a softball team and I am a foot taller than one of the guys on the team.

EASTON GUY: I have no idea. It is just the way they do it. But there are different ratios. They start at 26, 27, 28, and 30. There is no 29. Does anybody make a 29?

Roy: Yeah. Mikken, Worth…

EASTON GUY: That is the weight.

Rob: So a heavier bat is going to be harder to swing, but if you can swing it, it is going to put more energy in the ball?

EASTON GUY: I swing a 28 ounce bat just because that is comfortable for me. Now there are guys on my team who are bigger than me and they swing a 26 ounce bat.

And then we make the bats in a two piece and a one piece, composite and aluminum, same thing we do with everything else.

Rob: The drops in men’s softball, are those some are legal in some leagues…?

EASTON GUY: Generally the only thing they do in softball is some leagues don’t allow you to use composite bats.

Roy: Well what about ASA USSSA?

EASTON GUY: Let me explain that to you. There are different softball leagues like there is Little League, Dixie League, etc.

Rob: It is USSSA?

EASTON GUY: USSSA. United States Softball, whatever it is. ASA is the biggest one. USSSA is probably behind ASA. And then you have lots of little ones. You have NSA. You have ISF. ASA is the biggest and most popular, because in fast pitch softball as opposed to slow pitch softball, it is all ASA.

So they have taken some of their clout with fast pitch and kind of moved it over to slow pitch. They all have their own regulations. ASA is the strictest.

Rob: So are all your bats ASA?

EASTON GUY: No. The ASA bats are…With an ASA bat, the exit speed ratio is ??????95 MPH. So when they do their tests, they put the bat on like a fixed thing and they have a ball and...It is fixed.

So they get to where it is going to be the same. So it is 98+ for ASA. Everybody else is 100+, and those bats are all completely illegal for ASA. They won’t use a non-ASA bat. They will have ASA in a little home plate on it, or they will say USSSA approved or NSF approved, whatever.

But again, if I play the USSSA league, they might say that you can’t use composite bats. You have to use only aluminum bats.

Roy: Well let’s look at the bats. In the top right you have the white, the white and the green, and the white and the red.

EASTON GUY: Those are all non-ASA bats.

Roy: Right, but what is the difference between the two?

EASTON GUY: With the Synergy bats there are four of them, OK? We have two one piece bats. I’m sorry, those are the same. Those both have a 13 ½ inch barrel on those. One is end loaded. The BH is end loaded. The other one is not end loaded.

Rob: So just the balance is different?

EASTON GUY: Right. It is heavier at the end. They put a weight…

Rob: Which one is heavier, though?

EASTON GUY: The BH. The red one, I believe. It is the same thing with the two piece composites. One is going to be end loaded and one is not.

Roy: So the difference between Stealth and Synergy is…

EASTON GUY: Stealth is two piece. Synergy is one piece. But that is the same here. Synergy is going to be one piece. Stealth is two piece.

Rob: So that is across the line? Stealth is always going to be two piece? If it said that somewhere, that would be really helpful on the website.

EASTON GUY: But also, you have go to remember. Stealth is two piece composite.

Rob: Always a two piece composite?

EASTON GUY: Because the SV-12 is two piece, but it is an aluminum bat.

Rob: So by definition, the…

EASTON GUY: The SV-12’s are all going to be two piece aluminum composite.

Rob: Synergy, is that always a composite?

EASTON GUY: In bats, yes. Synergy is going to be one piece composite.

Rob: OK. And then stealth is going to be a two piece…

EASTON GUY: Two piece composite.

Rob: And then what are the other brands like that?

EASTON GUY: The SV-12 is going to be an aluminum barrel and a composite handle. The V-12 is going to be solid aluminum. That is going to be the same for baseball, little league, senior, slow pitch, fast pitch.

Roy: However though, the BSN 1, which is not up there, but see the Synergy plus George? That is a two piece bat.

EASTON GUY: But that is from last year though. Anything new…

Rob: So we can’t say that across the site, because we sell stuff that is two and three years old.

Roy: It is almost correct, but it is not.

Rob: No wonder I am confused! Every year they change…

EASTON GUY: For 2010 it is correct.

Rob: From here on out is it going to be that way? Is it who knows? OK. Then we will deal with it as it comes. So the differences between men’s softball slow pitch.

Roy: The SCN 16 and SCN 16 BH, they are both Synergy bats. They are both one piece composite bats. The difference is that the BH is an end load. And they are both USSSA bats. They are non-ASA bats.

Rob: So why would somebody use an end load bat?

Roy: End load bat would generally tend to be more for like a slow pitch softball where it is more of like a lob pitch.

EASTON GUY: Because it is end loaded it is going to generate a little more bat speed. But the thing is you have to be comfortable swinging that type of bat.

Rob: Does it feel off balance?


Roy: If you are swinging at a pitch that is just lobbed in, it is easier to swing. If you have a guy that is throwing hard in what they call modified, it is a little bit harder to control.

EASTON GUY: It is going to slow your bat speed down a little bit.

Roy: You have to be a strong guy to swing that bat.

EASTON GUY: Arch pitch is a different kind of game, because in the arch pitch there is like unlimited arch where the guy is just like lobbing the ball up. These guys are just waiting for the pitch to come and then they are just whacking the ball.

With the modified it is almost like baseball. You have to sit there and you have to hit. With these guys, they are giving them a beach ball to kind of just turn around and swing as hard as they can.

With the end load, what it is going to do is it is going to bring their bat through a little bit more quickly, but it is harder…I play modified. I mean there are guys that use end loaded bats to play modified. I would never use an end loaded bat. To me it is uncomfortable.

Roy: But again, getting back to defining the difference between those two Synergy bats, the SCN 16 and the SCN 16 BH, the BH is the end load and the regular 16 is not end load. They are both USSSA bats period. That is it. So you can’t use them in an ASA game.

Rob: So it makes sense to have bats sorted by what league…?

EASTON GUY: It is difficult. I will tell you why. If you sort it by ASA and say these are ASA bats, one league might say that you can’t use composite ASA’s.

Roy: Also, too, you can use an ASA bat for USSSA, but you can’t use a USSSA bat for ASA.

Rob: So if you are in the less strict league, we could have a less strict league bucket that would include ASA and USSSA, right?

EASTON GUY: If you are playing men’s softball, you pretty much know what you can use. I mean they will tell you up front. If you are in Long Island and you are playing in an ASA league, you can’t use a composite bat.

Roy: Here is the way I would define it. You can have a USSSA bucket and you don’t need to have anything else, because anything else you could use…In other words, you can’t use that bat anywhere else.

EASTON GUY: What you need to do is you need to put a bat and say, “Synergy slow pitch bat, Brett Helmer, for use in leagues including USSA, ISF,” because it is stamped on there.

Rob: I am just wondering if it would be easier for someone to go shopping for a bat. If they wanted to shop by USSSA we would include all of the ASA bats and all the USSSA bats. There is some filtering that we can do. We are not even using the search technology that I want to use to where people can actually go through and click little buttons…

Roy: But the problem with that is that if you click on a bat that is an ASA bat and I buy this really neat composite bat, “Oh it is ASA approved. I can buy it. Excellent.” You get the bat, go over to the game, and the ump says, “Nope. No composite bats.”

EASTON GUY: Well that is a rule within the rule.

Roy: Right. But what I am saying is you don’t want somebody going on and saying…To me, the most ridiculous thing is that ASA has rules that are very stringent. But then a local league will say, “Well you can’t use that bat.”

It is stupid! For me, why play by ASA rules?

Rob: But a guy will know that his league won’t allow it before they buy a bat.

EASTON GUY: It is only aluminum. You can’t use any composite.

Rob: So we could have something where people could check off “aluminum only”. There can be like three different…Pick one of the three or all three. Show just the aluminum, just the composite, or just show the hybrid.

Roy: What about if you have a category that says, “Exceeds 98 MPH exit velocity?”

EG: But those guys don’t know the technicality. They just know they can’t use a composite bat. They don’t know why. They don’t know that it is 98 or 95 or 100. They don’t know any of that stuff.

Rob: But that 98 or 95, that is an ASA rule versus a…?

EG: Utrip. They just know, “I need a bat and the guy said I can’t use composite bats.” It is ASA and you can’t use composite. That is all they know.

Rob: Well I have another thing, not just Shop by Drop, but just a way of doing filtering. We will have to go in and tag these bats a certain way.


EG: So that is the two Tri-Zones and then the…

Rob: When you say Tri-Zone, what is that?

EG: Well the Tri-Zone is that SCN 16 and SCN 16 BH. Those are the Synergy bats.

Roy: They are all Tri-Zones, all four of them.

Rob: What is Tri-Zone? Is that a marketing term?

EG: If you look at the catalogue it explains what it is. I don’t really use it much.

Roy: You are fired George. Actually that bat is not even in the catalogue.

EG: The SCN 2 is not. Do you have SCN 2’s? Are you going to get them?

Roy: Huh?

EG: Did you order SCN 2’s?

Roy: What is that?

EG: That was that special made I thought you said you didn’t want.

Roy: Oh. It was a USSSA bat only.

Rob: So it is north and south of the sweet spot is the Tri-Zone?

EG: I don’t think anybody is buying this bat because it is a Tri-Zone. They are looking at it as a one piece or two piece bat, I am pretty sure.

And then when you go to the ASA bats…Now in the ASA bats we have what is called the Reveal in the slow pitch. It is a solid composite or two piece composite bat. And what it is is the bat changes color if you try to tamper with the bat.

One of the reason why a lot of leagues outlawed, and ASA stopped selling or was allowing composite bats, is that composite is very easy to alter. You know, you roll a bat. So what this does is allows you to see if a bat is rolled.

Rob: That is nuts.

Roy: So the SSR 1 Stealth Reveal, two piece composite bat. And then when you get into the SRV 1 and SRV 2…

EG: The same thing. The Stealth’s are going to be two piece. The Synergy’s are one piece. This is just a one piece composite bat with a 13 ½ inch barrel.

Rob: So is that a bigger barrel?

EG: It is a longer barrel.

Rob: So that means a bigger sweet spot?

EG: Yes. Now the SRV 2 ahs a smaller barrel. It is 12 inch but it is end loaded.

Rob: And that is just preference?

EG: That is really more of a genuine slow pitch bat.

Roy: Wait, like the shell?

Rob: Yeah. Why would somebody get something…In slow pitch, the ball is coming so slow…

Roy: Right. So the 12 inch shell is a little bit less surface to hit with…

Rob: So if you can put that ball on that bat where you want to…

EG: You are going to have a greater sweet spot, like a more defined sweet spot, but that is more of like a real slow pitch bat. And then the Synergy Clear is a 13 ½ inch. It is the same as this bat. The only difference is that they make it out of a different makeup, a different composite makeup which lowers the price.

So when they put in the composite, these are different composites. This one is like $124. It is a lot less money.

Rob: Is that retail?

EG: Retail on that one is…What do you retail them for?

Roy: What is that?

EG: The Synergy Clear.

Rob: SCL 1.

Roy: $200.

EG: And then again, you have the aluminum composite and the solid aluminum. And then when you go to fast pitch, again, it is completely different.


EG: Fast pitch, like I said, is a completely different animal. You are going to go more to like a baseball type weight to length ratio. Here, again, in the Stealth, two piece composite.

These are all ASA approved. There is nothing else. So here you have the two piece composite bats. You have a -10 and a -9. What is your ratio of -10 to -9 you sell?

Roy: Much more -10.

EG: Way more -10. And again, those go with different…

Rob: The -10’s are lighter?

EG: Yes, an ounce lighter. On a slow pitch bat all you have is 34. This goes from 30 to 34, -10 and -9. Then you have the one piece Synergy again, the Stealth Synergy; one piece, 29-44.

Rob: Why 29?

EG: Younger kids pretty much. Those are one piece bats, -10 and -9. Then you go to the Synergy Crystal. It is again a different makeup. It is a different makeup of composites. It is a $124 bat. That is a -11.

So that is a price point bat for somebody that might be even younger. So you have a 29, -11 in that.

Rob: So what age?

EG: These bats, 29, -11, anywhere from 9-10 year. And then you have the two piece aluminum. We changed the color on this one and this one only because it is more girl oriented colors. So we have the silver and the teal aluminum composite and then the one piece aluminum, and this has a different barrel design. This thing has a flare barrel. Some people call it the bottle bat.

Rob: The V-12?

EG: Yes. That is a -12.5. That is really light. This one is a -11.5. So on these two bats, you do see high school and college players using them. If they want something really light they will go to that V-12. But generally you are going to see them using composites. That is an aluminum composite.

And then these are all going to be solid aluminum bats. And it starts going down in price point. These are all price point bats.

Rob: Do we sell all these or not?

Roy: The Reflex we carry. Those other ones, no we don’t.

EG: The Reflex, out of all the bats, is probably like the price pointed bat that high school kid would probably still use. After that it is kind of…If you are a high school player using a Typhoon, you can buy that bat on the corner.

On a Saturday afternoon, if you go to any rec field in the country, there are little kids using that bat. I mean that goes down to 25/15. That might be my best selling item that I have in the catalogue.

Rob: As far as the number of units?

EG: It is like a $10.50 bat. Everybody has got that. That is like a ridiculously stupid good selling bat. If the league is buying bats for the kids, that is the bat that they will buy.

Rob: What is the performance difference between a $10 bat and a $200 bat?

EG: There are two things we have to remember. One is if you put a $10 in the hand of a kid that can hit, the kid is going to be able to hit with a $10 bat. They may not get as much power, distance, or bat speed…

Rob: Or have the control?

EG: Or control, but they will be able to hit. If you are a 15 year old girl that is playing travel softball and you can’t hit, you can’t hit with that bat and you can’t hit with the other bat.

Rob: But when somebody can hit…

EG: The performance will be much different.

Rob: I know with a guitar…Like with a $300 guitar and a $3,000 guitar there is a huge difference as far as…I am an intermediate player. But an advanced player can just…

EG: There is a huge difference. If I am going to pick up a guitar, for me to use a $3,000 guitar or a $25 guitar is not going to make a difference. If Eric Clapton picks up the two guitars, it will be completely different.

----------- END OF ROY2.doc -----------



DEMARINI GUY: Or, bats are going to come with what we call this rotation index here. You see numbers. It has got one through eight on there. And the same thing at the top of the barrel. It has got one through eight there.

Ideally, what you want to do with the bat…You don’t always want to hit the bat in the same spot. You want to continue to rotate the bat. So that is just something specific that you will see on the bats that you might have a question about.

You always want to continue to rotate the bat and it extends the shelf life of the bat a little bit. Now the problem with that is, if a kid hits a homerun on number eight, guess what happens the next time he steps up there? He is right on number eight again because he knows that part of the bat is hot.

We will never say our bats have a break in period, but composite over time will break in a little bit. So you want to kind of break it in evenly throughout the bat. So that is helpful to always be rotating a bat through.


DEMARINI GUY: This is the hub end cap. This is the only bat that we have with the hub end cap on inside of the bat.

Rob: On the CF4?

DEMARINI GUY: On the CF4, because it is a wider barrel and a longer barrel. We made it internal, so that is going to bring the energy back out to the sweet spot of the bat.

Rob: Is that last year’s?

DEMARINI GUY: This is just a different model end cap. The old CF4 last year had this end cap, and this is our Clutch end cap. They have the same purpose. They are both going to redistribute energy.

So say a ball hits the sweet spot of the bat. Energy from the bat is going to go outward this way. This is going to redirect some of it back to the spot where the bat is going to hit. Some of it is going to go out this way. Some of it is going to come back through the bat. So this helps redirect energy back into the sweet spot of the bat.

Rob: So the length of the barrel on the new bat extends to the point where…

DEMARINI GUY: Right. The barrels are pretty much the same on this. But the difference is by making this end cap this way, we were able to lengthen it down here more this way. Where this one starts to get skinnier here, this sweet spot is bigger throughout here now. So the sweet spot continues up through here.

This part on the old bat wasn’t as sweet as this one, because you were losing energy as you went up to this end cap here. By making this an internal end cap and lengthening the barrel, this way you are going to get more of a sweet spot more through here than you would say through here on the old bat.

Do you have anything else to add on the Voodoo?

Roy: Negative.

DEMARINI GUY: So this is our Vendetta C6. This is a $299 bat. Baseball. That is going to be a $299 composite bat. So you have the high end CF4 $399 composite. Then you have our high end aluminum at $299. Then we have our single wall C6 composite. Now what does C6 mean?

C6 is our single wall composite bat. This one we talked about is a double wall composite bat. We made this Vendetta in a C6 composite. C6 composite is going to be a wider weave.

Rob: It is thicker?

DEMARINI GUY: Actually, no. We are just to say it is wider. That is what we will say. So the thickness in that bat…It is going to be a little bit thicker, yes, because it is not going to have two walls. It is going to be independent. So it is a slightly thicker bat.

Rob: When you say wider, do you mean the threads in it are wider?

DEMARINI GUY: Think of it is as a composite weaved this way where the pitch back composite we are able to thin it out and make it really tight like this. This one is actually going to be a little bit wider this way.

Rob: So there is more spacing in between…?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes. You are going to have more spacing in there. Exactly. So you are going to get a single way trampoline effect opposed to a double wall trampoline here. What makes the Vendetta bat series unique is we have what we call our hybrid handle, which comes with the Rails technology.

This is actually two handles that work independently of one another. I say they work independently, but they are actually one handle. There is an inner handle that has a lot of flex. Our flex index goes up to five. Everyone has a different flex index.

These both are at 3.5, which is a little bit stiffer. The inner handle on this one is actually a 2.5, so you are going to have a lot of bend. And then the outer handle is going to be a little bit stiffer. It is going to be at 3.5.

So this one is going to flex at about a 3, which is much more flex than you are going to do with that. What that extra flex in the rails do on this, it absorbs all the vibration out through the bat.

So because you have a little more flex in there, you are going to have a little more bend in the bat. The rails actually absorb all the vibration. So if you go and hit this thing, you will not feel virtually anything on your hands. If you just take the bat and you bang it on the ground, you don’t really feel anything, which is interesting.

Again, this is going to give you more flex, so it is going to be better for someone who is looking for a little more bat speed. These are built for a power player. They are going to be slightly more end loaded. This is going to be built with a little more flex. It is going to be a little more balanced. So this is going to be for your kid who is looking to get a little bit extra bat speed.

So that is what the Vendetta C6 is. Again, you are looking at a single wall composite opposed to a double wall, and you are going to get a little more flex in the handle than you would with the CF4

So that is what the Vendetta C6 is. Again, you are looking at a single wall composite opposed to a double wall, and you are going to get a little more flex in the handle than you would with the CF4. And again, this is our mid-level.

Rob: How much is it?


Roy: Maybe I missed this, but are the Vendetta C6 rails the same on…?

DEMARINI GUY: The same on all the Vendetta handles. They are just different paint jobs.

And then this is the Vendetta aluminum. So this is the Vendetta C6 composite and this is going to be the Vendetta aluminum.

Rob: Two piece?

DEMARINI GUY: Same deal. All going to be two pieces. The difference with this one being you are going to have the hybrid rails handle, but you are going to have aluminum instead of composite.

So this is the SC4 alloy, which is our high end alloy just like our Voodoo, but the difference being that that has a pitch black composite handle. This one is going to have the rails handles. So you are going to get more flex in this bat.

Roy: So is it the same barrel as the…?

DEMARINI GUY: Slightly different, but yes. Again, this one is built a little more balanced. This is our long barrel.

Roy: So the shell is longer.


Rob: On which one?

Roy: On the Voodoo.

DEMARINI GUY: Yes. On the Voodoo you are going to get a longer shell on the barrel. They are just built a little bit differently. The sweet spots are going to be virtually the same. But because of the handle on this one, you can tell that the handle is a lot longer than on the Voodoo. That absorbs more of the vibration.

So while it looks like the sweet spot is going to be bigger on this one, it is really not. It is about the same. But the barrels are built differently. But it is the same exact alloy there.

So this is going to be $249 for the Vendetta with the rails. Again, you are going to get a different grip on this. This is our pause attack grip opposed to our verogated comfort grip. This is just a little bit stiffer feeling grip. That one actually has got a little give to it. It is softer. This is actually more of like the old school grip. So that is what we are talking about with the Vendetta.

So again, these are built with a little more flex. You are going to get more bat speed with these two bats. And those two are going to be your high end power bats. So depending on what kind of hitter you are sometimes determines what kind of bat you want to swing.

Does that make sense, the difference between these? Again, you are going to get one that is composite and one that is aluminum. Same handle, the barrels are just going to be different.

Again, on aluminum you need to absorb more vibration. So the hybrid handle on this one has to be a little bit bigger to absorb more vibration. That is why. Again, composite absorbs more…

Rob: That is why the rails are longer on the Vendetta.

DEMARINI GUY: Correct. On the Vendetta without the C6. So that is why it is different. Again, the barrel’s sweet spot is actually the same. But to absorb the vibration you need to make this handle a little bit bigger.


DEMARINI GUY: We call the Vexxum the bat that bends. It was our original two piece bat, the first one that kind of put DeMarini on the map.

Rob: When did Vexxum come out?

Roy: It has got to be three or four years.

DEMARINI GUY: It has got to be longer than that, I think. I think about six years. Maybe not. What was the first one? That ugly yellow and black one? Maybe about five or six years. We can find that out for you.

This year’s Vexxum is going to look very similar to this. Obviously the color pattern is going to be different, but it is the same deal. You are going to have CS4 alloy. Instead of the pitch black plus composite handle, you are going to get this C6 composite handle.

All of our materials we use throughout all our bats. So now you are going to get that wider weave composite in the handle of the Vexxum. So what does the wider weave mean? Wider means you are going to get more flex, more give.

So while this is a 3.5 on the flex scale and it has got the stronger, more powerful composite in it, the Vexxum is going to have the wider weave one that is going to flex a little bit more. So you are looking at a 3 on the flex scale for that.

Rob: Why would that be important?

DEMARINI GUY: The flex is more for somebody who is lacking bat speed. If you think about it, this bat doesn’t have flex as much, so I have got to make sure to get it all the way around. So my power is going to come through there from myself. If I am lagging something that is going to have a little more flex, by bringing it slower through…It is kind of like a golf club. Do you ever see that? The more flex you have the more the bat is going to bend and then fire through the zone as you come through it.

Rob: So why would somebody not have bat speed?

DEMARINI GUY: They are not strong enough to swing a bat. There are multiple reasons why you wouldn’t have bat speed. Again, it mostly comes down to strength. A lot of leagues now are going to make kids swing heavier bats because they are afraid of people getting hurt like that.

In that case, you probably want as much flex as possible if you were a smaller kid swinging a bat because it is just harder for you to get it around. So if you have a little more flex on there, as you come through the bat is going to help whip through the zone, creating more impact, hitting the ball further. That is why you would definitely want more flex on a bat.

So the Vexxum is going to be very similar to the Voodoo. Same alloy barrel. You are going to get a different composite handle. It is going to flex a little bit more, so you are going to have a little bit more whip through the zone. It is going to feel a little bit whippier when you swing it. Same grip, same everything else.

Roy: So there is no DeMarini baseball bat -3 that has a metal shaft. Every shaft is composite.

DEMARINI GUY: Incorrect. There is the brand new one that just came out which I will talk about in just a second.

Roy: What is the retail on that? Is it lower than $199?

DEMARINI GUY: I think it is $229 maybe. The Vexxum is at $199. And then this M2M, which is a brand new bat, is going to be at $229. And like he just said, all of our bats are going to have composite handles except for this brand new bat.

It is going to be M2M, which we call our metal to metal construction. Some players like to have two piece bats. But the one complaint is that they flex too much.

Rob: So why do they like a two piece bat over a one piece bat?

DEMARINI GUY: Because they like a bat that can flex through the zone to give them a little bit extra pop.

Rob: So they can feel the difference blindfolded?

DEMARINI GUY: Probably. You might be able to, too. A two piece bat has a slightly different feel. Again, if you are not used to swinging them, all of our bats will feel a little end loaded. It is not just one piece throughout the bat. You actually have two pieces working independently of each other.

So a guy who swung a Louisville exo-grid his whole life…The Omaha and the exo-grid, those are one piece bats. They are none for being just a one piece bat. So a kid who has swung that bat his whole life might not like the feel of this because it is going to be something different to him. He is going to get a little more give and a little more bend in the barrel.

At DEMARINI we are a two piece bat company. We will never be anything but a two piece bat company because that is just what we do. That is what we were founded on. We have constructed a bat that is going to feel a little stiffer, more like a one piece bat. It is not going to give as much.

The M2M is going to be just like the Vexxum or just like the Voodoo. You are going to have the SC4 alloy, the metal barrel, and instead of having a pitch black composite handle or the rails in the case of the Vexxum, or having the SC6 alloy, it is going to have a brand new M2M handle, which is just going to be an aluminum metal alloy handle.

So since it is two piece you are still going to get a little bit of give, but it is going to be a lot stiffer and it is going to feel more like a one piece bat.

Rob: So is that like the stiffest two piece bat ever?

DEMARINI GUY: It will be our stiffest two piece bat. It will be a 4 on our flex meter. The Voodoo and the CF4 were a 3.5. So this will be our stiffest bat on the market.

Roy: Why would it be more money than the Vexxum?

DEMARINI GUY: Which is using the composite? Because I think making the aluminum handle is actually a harder process than making the composite handle, because composite handles get shipped in overseas. Aluminum we are making here. That is what I am guessing.

Rob: So it is half made in the USA?

DEMARINI GUY: Well they are constructed in the USA. You know the Vendetta is made in the USA from top to bottom.

Rob: But all of them are assembled in the USA?

DEMARINI GUY: We have our own factory in Oregon. So we are not shipping overseas like Easton does. Now the reason this M2M came into existence was the Vexxum little league bat, as you know, was a dog. It really was just a bad bat. It sold because it was a good price point, but it had a sweet spot that was tiny.

The M2M in the little league is off the charts they said. That is the reason they brought it into existence. It is going to have a bigger sweet spot and it feels just so much better on a little league level than the Vexxum did.

You got some of those Vexxums, right? The barrel was like this big. It was so tiny.

Roy: It was all shaft.

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah. It was all shaft. Exactly. That is what she said.

Roy: Hopefully.

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah! So that is where that came from. They were actually going to get rid of Vexxum all together and leave the M2M throughout the whole line. Or they were going to call it the Vexxum and have it as aluminum and metal, but we said no. The Vexxum is a composite shaft with aluminum barrel. So we ended up making two bats.

The M2M is going to be available in a -3 and a -12 little league. That is it. There is not going to be anymore little league Vexxum. It is just going to be -3, -5, and -10 senior league. So that is where that came from.


Rob: When you say everything is the same, you mean…?

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah. Exactly right down the line. We keep everything similar right down the line of all our bats. In little league, the only one that is going to be different is the Voodoo double wall -10.

Roy: Rob does that make sense for you?

Rob: Well yeah. The materials are the same.

DEMARINI GUY: Everything is the same.

Roy: But as far as when you go from the baseball to the senior league, that is a -3 and these are -8’s.

Rob: But is there a difference between the bats?

DEMARINI GUY: No. Just the length and weight is going to be different. Barrel size is actually exactly the same. We keep it 2 5/8 throughout. Everything is the same. Even in little league everything is going to remain the same, just the size of the barrel is going to shrink.

In little league, our Voodoo black in the -10 is actually a double wall aluminum bat.

Rob: Why did they do that?

DEMARINI GUY: So we have a little league in a -13 that is a single wall. We had a bat a few years ago that was called the F4 which did really well for us. It was a double wall aluminum bat. The problem is when we came out with the CF4, it kind of eliminated that, but we wanted to keep the double wall aluminum for the kids who liked that line. So they added it to the Voodoo line. So now you have a double wall aluminum bat in the Voodoo line, only at the -10 level. Everything else is going to be the single wall aluminum. If that makes sense.

Rob: I think so. After a while it kind of…

DEMARINI GUY: It all blends together. If you are just going through the catalogue, all you need to know is that the -10 Voodoo is going to be a double wall aluminum bat. And again, it is just going to be two aluminum walls working independently.

Rob: Is it the same aluminum in each wall?


Rob: So what is the difference between a single way aluminum bat and a double wall aluminum bat of the same thickness? The two walls being separate gives you the trampolining effect?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes. Because you are making it a thinner….You can’t make a double wall aluminum at that size. You can’t form it correctly on a bigger barrel. This is what I have been told. On the bigger barrels, you can’t form an aluminum double wall bat to work effectively.

But at the smaller levels, since you are doing a smaller barrel and you are working with less material…This one kind of gets bigger as it goes up. That one is almost flat across. So you can actually make it a double wall aluminum. It is actually a smaller barrel than our -13, which is…

Rob: They are both little league bats?

DEMARINI GUY: They are both little league bats, but that one is actually going to have a smaller barrel, the -10. Again, this was a bat that did well for us, and they wanted to keep it in the line, so that is why it got moved to here. But this is your -13 little league bat.

Rob: So are those different skews?

DEMARINI GUY: They are different skews. As you can see, this is one inch bigger, but you are going to get a smaller barrel and it is going to be a double wall.

Rob: So you are trading the sweet spot size for a trampolining effect?


Roy: And the -13 sells better.

Rob: And it is lighter?

Roy: Yeah. You have to be a stronger, bigger kid to use that bat.

Rob: To use the -13?

Roy: To use the -10. It is a heavier bat.

DEMARINI GUY: So it is for a kid who is a little bit bigger and stronger; more of a power hitter. Most little league bats are -11 and -13. Not many kids are swinging a -10. It just doesn’t make sense. That is usually a senior league size weight drop.


DEMARINI GUY: …the specifics of our bats; the materials, what we call everything. It is the same throughout every line. We don’t change it. Our high end softball bat has got the same materials in it that our high end baseball bat does.

Rob: So do you only have two types of composite material?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes. Softball and baseball have the same types of material. Slow pitch has a little bit of difference, because we were originally a slow pitch softball company. So we have a couple different composites in there. But I will talk about that when we get there. But whatever is in our baseball line, the same stuff is going to be in our softball line.

Rob: So the whole purpose of the DEMARINI company was two piece bats?


Rob: Did you invent that?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes. We were the first ones to do it and then everyone else followed it.

Rob: Knocked y’all off.

DEMARINI GUY: Well like Easton, they have their connection piece. That was there way that they got around...They said, “Well ours is connected. It is not actually two pieces.” They kind of do both. They do their connection piece and they still have some that are just a regular one piece throughout.

Louisville claims to always be a one piece bat company, and if you look, they sure make bats that look like they are two pieces, don’t they? They went after DeMarini when we first came out, and then they started making bats that look like two piece bats just to confuse people.

And their Triton up there, which was supposed to be there biggest bat in forever, it was a freaking dog. At least Easton changed it a little bit. They put that connection piece in there. That was their way of getting around two piece. That is fine. Easton makes good bats. I am not going to dog Easton. But Louisville? Their bats don’t sell.

Rob: Do y’all sell a disproportionate amount of slow pitch softball bats because you started off that way?

DEMARINI GUY: It used to be that way. But now our baseball bats and especially our fast pitch bats are probably pretty hot. Again, we were in that slow pitch market forever.

Roy: Yeah. DeMarini was really a men’s bat. From the beginning, slow pitch softball was where they were. Dean Marini, who obviously was the starter and inventor of the company, he was a softball guy. And then slowly but surely they kind of start to enter a little bit of the baseball market. I would say four or five years ago was when it all of a sudden started to come on a little bit. In the past two seasons you have seen little league, senior league, fast pitch really come on strong.

Slow pitch still does really well, but they are kind of pumping on all cylinders right now.

Rob: When did they get bought out by Wilson?

DEMARINI GUY: About six years ago.

Roy: It is still kind of thought of as DeMarini.

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah, because DeMarini had brand recognition within the industry.

Rob: That is why it doesn’t have a Wilson logo on it?

DEMARINI GUY: Right. All our bats will always be DeMarini.

Roy: Also known as Dan Marini, DeMartini, Dean Martini, or Dean Marino

DEMARINI GUY: What helped us, too, was we signed a couple schools. We signed Oregon State a few years ago and they won back to back national championships swinging our bats.

Roy: Let’s put it this way. Nike for example. Georgia two world series ago was runner up. My feeling is they were using Nike. Where is Nike?

DEMARINI GUY: Worst bat in history next to Reebok. So like he said. Baseball was really hot…Our first F3, the red one, came out and was good. Then the black one came out and it was really good. This F4 this year has been great.

Fast pitch has been unbelievable. The growth we have had in fast pitch has been tremendous. The Phoenix was the first one. Last year’s F3 did tremendous.

Rob: Do we sell proportionate amounts of DeMarini bats or is it still weighted towards men’s softball?

Roy: No. I assume we sell more fast pitch than we do slow pitch. We slay it when it comes to fast pitch softball.

Rob: Why are they coming on strong like that? Is it new? Are they hotter?

Roy: Don’t get me wrong. Easton is still the top dog. However, DeMarini is closing the gap. They are coming on. Louisville used to own most of the market. Now when I tell you they own nothing, they own nothing. They sell less expensive bats, $99 and under. That is where Louisville Slugger is in the business. They have a bat for $79.95 and $99.95. I do pretty well with those. $199? $299? Forget it. When I tell you I buy eight pieces, at the end of the year I have six left and I give them away at cost and move on. But yeah, it is just a dog and a half.

Rob: So DeMarini is definitely like a strong 2nd in the fast pitch?

DEMARINI GUY: In the high end, yes. I would say we are top of the line. Easton’s bat didn’t do that great. There bat was just OK this year.

Roy: It did pretty well.

DEMARINI GUY: We gained a lot of ground. We will never be Easton. That is what they do. Everyone knows them. But we thought we had an opportunity to gain some ground on Louisville because there product was just performing inferior. They were just not making a good high end product. I don’t know if we took any share away from Easton, but I think we gained a lot of Louisville.

Roy: I think Easton owns 50% of it. DeMarini owns 40% of it. Louisville owns not even 1%. They own nothing. I could not carry them and not miss a beat. Mikken and Anderson have come on. But Anderson is very specialty. They have a heavy bat, so that takes a lot of girls right out of the picture. If you are not big and strong, you can’t use it, so forget it. But it is a wonderful bat. We do decent with it. And that is it.

Mizuno is meaningless. Rawlings, meaningless. Combat, again, minimal.

DEMARINI GUY: They are breaking their way along.

Roy: Fast pitch softball is not their cup of tea right now. So again, from what I sell, Easton is at 50% and DeMarini at 40%. Could that go reverse? Yeah, it could.

DEMARINI GUY: So again, the CF4 is our high end girls fast pitch bat. Same deal as our baseball bat. You are going to get the pitch black plus composite, which is our high end composite weave. Double wall composite.

Roy: Does it say double wall on the barrel?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes. “Half and Half Double wall.” So you are in the best composite. You are going to have the thinnest walls working with Silver Trace giving you the strongest composite for the best trampoline effect off this bat. Because of the way the barrel was made, you are going to have the old Clutch end cap on here.

Rob: Because it is double wall?

DEMARINI GUY: No. It is just the way the barrel is formed. As you can see, that is much more of a wider barrel, so that is why it uses that end cap. But again, all this one does is it redirects the power back to the sweet spot of where the ball is hit.

This is available in a -10, which is the most popular softball size. We also have it in a -9 and -8 weight drop. The -9 is going to be an ounce lighter, but the barrel itself is going to be more balanced like this bat.

Last year’s F3, the -9 was end loaded. It was more handle, less barrel, more power in the end. The new F4 -9 is going to be a longer barrel like this, more balanced. We made it that way because we saw some girls wanting to swing a little heavier bat, but they didn’t like that big end loaded feeling to it.

And we also have this available in a -8 drop, too.

Rob: Those are separate SKUs?

DEMARINI GUY: Separate SKUs, yeah. You have three separate SKUs. And the -8 is again, bigger handle, smaller barrel, more end loaded.

Roy: What is the difference between this CF4 and CF3 from last year?

DEMARINI GUY: Again, you are using the pitch black plus composite, so you are getting a stronger composite weave. It is just a better composite that we are using in that. It is just going to be a more powerful composite.

Rob: Why would people think that if something is more durable…Is it like something burns brighter and burns out? The hotter the bat, the shorter the life span? Is that the perception?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes and no. Honestly, you want a bat that is going to last and perform. But the fact of the matter is, if a bat is going to perform out of the wrapper, it is not going to last that long. That is just the way it is.

We try to make our bats as hot as possible. And everybody is trying to do this. ASA changed their regulations two years ago. You have got to keep within the restrictions. The bat cannot break in over time and go out of their restrictions.

Rob: At what percentage is that bat hot coming out of the wrapper?

DEMARINI GUY: I would say 99%. It will break in very, very minimally. There will be players that tell you it is going to break in a little bit, but the fact of the matter is we make this bat as hot as it could possibly be right out the wrapper.

Now again, a bat is going to be at its hottest right before it breaks. That is just the way it is, especially on the composite end.

Right before a bat breaks is going to be the hottest it is going to be. The composite is stressed so far to a point where you are getting the most flex out of that, but any more flex and it is breaking. So that is why a bat is always hotter before it breaks.

And again, before ASA changed regulations, everybody was making composite bats that would just break in over time. They said, “All right. As long as it passes spec right out of the wrapper, you are fine.” Then over time, people hit them against trees, take a hammer to them, do whatever they need to do, mallets, whatever, and that composite would break in and break in and get hotter and hotter and hotter.

Rob: So it would go from like 100 to 115 or whatever?

DEMARINI GUY: It would be craziness. And that is kind of what forced Easton to do their clear bat up there. People were doing different things with their bat. They were gutting them. They were breaking them in. That bat clearly shows that that bat has no tampering. The problem with that is people say that bat takes longer to break in.

So we designed this bat…By adding the pitch plus composite we were able to thin the walls even further. This is the CF4. By thinning the walls…We were still able to keep them strong. So you are getting thinner walls, but they are going to hold their performance, so the bat is going to perform very, very hot by adding that. So that is going to be the main difference between that bat. Where that one didn’t have the Silver Trace technology, last year’s CF3. So your walls are not going to be as thin as they were on this bat and they are not going to be as strong. So this bat will perform better out of the wrapper than that bat will because you are having thinner walls and there is no break in period.

Rob: So why does DeMarini improve their bats in the same line or family and Easton just repaints their bats? Is that a fair question to ask?

Roy: Well, in my opinion of being an impartial guy here, just because somebody says pitch black plus, to me that doesn’t mean anything…


DEMARINI GUY: But again, if a bat is hot, kids will find out it is hot and they will buy it. This bat has been pretty hot. I have sold a lot of these. It has sold because it is performing. But everybody has a different opinion of what performance is. You will have people that love the freaking Anderson or the Rocket Tech bat up there and they will never swing another bat other than that one. They love that bat because of the way it feels.

So yes. Did Easton just do a paint job on their bats this year? Probably. Did we do that on some of our bats? Yeah, on occasion we will do it. But the fact of the matter is if we are adding something, if we are doing something, it is always in the way of performance.

Rob: Isn’t that a gamble, though, because if it doesn’t perform as well…

DEMARINI GUY: Sure. We have put some duds out there. It happens. But like with anything, you have got to take a shot to know if it is going to work. So that is why they said…

Rob: But why is there such a difference between what happens in the lab and what actually happens on the field? What conditions are happening on the field that cause..?

DEMARINI GUY: Temperature. Coldness especially. Composites do not perform as well in cold weather. Nobody will ever say that, but they just don’t. The cold weather, I think, hardens the composite and doesn’t give you enough effect on there. So that is something that can happen.

When you are producing thousands upon thousands of bats, there are going to be slight variations. It is just going to happen. We had a problem last year with one of our bats that was splintering. It wasn’t a problem with the bat. It was just the coating they were putting on the bat. The whole bat looked like it was shattering throughout the bat.

Roy: Oh, you mean the Crazy! There is a term for that, the Crazy.

Rob: That happens on guitars. It is actually a cool thing on guitars because it makes it look vintage and cool. But with bats I guess it is a bad thing.

DEMARINI GUY: But when you are dealing with composites, it is such a new area…We have this girl that works on our composites. She is really hot. But if you talk to her, you couldn’t even understand what she is saying when she talks about this S#!%. It is such an involved, really new department that they find out new stuff everyday.

We know one thing. The thinnest walls perform the best. But when you make a wall too thin, it breaks and it cracks. So if you can thin it out and still add strength to it, which that Silver Trace does, that is when you are going to get a bat that is really going to perform.

Ideally, you want a bat that is going to last forever and stay hot the whole time.

Rob: But is it realistic for someone who is a very serious baseball player or softball player to say that you want a bat, that even if it blasts out in one season, it is OK because you get your money’s worth…

DEMARINI GUY: That is what it has come to.

Rob: They are disposable.

DEMARINI GUY: They are almost like a disposable commodity. And you know what? At the end of the year, that kid hit .350 and had 25 homeruns using the Voodoo; he don’t give a damn if it broke. Next year he is going to come back to buy that same bat.

Look at the returns he has over here. Every time I come in here there are 20 or more bats there, because performance does not equal durability. It is just the way it is. The old Black Magic Easton was a freaking war club. You could do anything to that club…The ball didn’t go anywhere of that, but it lasted forever. But nowadays kids want performance.

Roy: Usually when a bat breaks and it has to be replaced, a consumer will say, “Let’s look at something else.” When a bat is very good (hot) and the bat breaks, they go, “I want the same one.”

And sometimes kids will see bats break and break and break, but they want another one. It is that good. It performs so good that they still want it.

Rob: So do hotter bats have a shorter lifespan?


Rob: Can we say that? Can we get

Roy: Performance has gone up.

Rob: You have two totally different sciences here with the aluminums and the composites. Do you have to have two different kind of experts?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes and no. It is two different sciences, yet it is the same effect. You want to try to build durability, but that is always second to performance. Performance is number one.

Roy: I am waiting for a manufacturer to go, “30 day warranty.”

Rob: It is that hot.

Roy: Let’s put it this way. We sell a demo bat and the manufacturer does not warranty it because they are selling something cheap, cheap, and we are making strong money on it, which is why I can put my neck on the line and say, “I will give you 90 days.”

And there are guys that say, “Well I am only playing summer tournament ball and next year I am going to the bigger field so I need a bigger bat, so 90 days suits me just fine.”

People don’t balk at 90 days.

DEMARINI GUY: But again, we are trying to make our bats as durable as possible, but we are not going to trade performance for durability. It is just not going to happen. Performance today to kids is what is most important.

Go on any chat site or any softball forum. All the kids are talking about is, “That bat is hot. This bat is so hot.” They don’t give a damn if they broke 10!

Rob: So what sites do you look at to see what folks are saying?

DEMARINI GUY: I can get them to it. I will email them to you. I have them at home. There are so many different places you can go.

A kid doesn’t care if he broke his F4 three times in a season. You know what he cared about? He hit three homeruns or four homeruns with it.

Roy: But what is interesting about these chat rooms is that…How we had that SCX 3 Extended bat. We had the exclusive on there. We had that order. They made them for us. The F4 or F4 special color. Or the bat that was written on there, “No warranty.” On those chat rooms is where somebody will go, “I got this new bat from called the no warranty bat…” And then all of a sudden it is like, Thank you!

DEMARINI GUY: He had a bat that he didn’t sell and he mistakenly put on his website for cost. Remember that? One dude bought it and within two days you were out of them. Word gets out like that!

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah! Once that word gets out, “Hey, has got the F4 at this price,” that stuff spreads like wildfire.

Again, it is performance definitely over durability. That is all I will say. It is totally opposite of everything else in the world. You want your car to be durable. You don’t give a crap if it…Well, some people want a performance car, but you want it to be durable.

DEMARINI GUY: It was a good time for 90 days! But I mean take a look at his warranty policy.

Roy: Yeah, but some of these have extreme issues. Some of them are blem’s that dented that I had to eat. Quite honestly I shouldn’t even have them sitting there. I should throw them in the dumpster.

But a lot of times, what happens is a guy will come in and say, “Hey, I just want a bat that I can beat the crap out of in the batting cage.” $200 or $250 bat, “Give me $40. Here you go.” So at least I can kind of recoup a little.

Rob: But with that, if the dent is on the other side, does it still work as well?

DEMARINI GUY: You are not going to be able to use it in the game, but for batting cages…

Roy: As stupid as this sounds, this guy said, “We are working on hitting tires.”

DEMARINI GUY: Even if it is a cracked composite…Like say that F4 right there. It is beat up, but that might be good to take in the cage, because you want to have the same bat in the cage and you don’t want to use your good bat to hit in the cage.

But some of these are…Like here. This is a good example. Look at the end of that by the end cap where that piece is…Or this was a demo. You can feel the dent in it. This is a demo bat, so again, I warranty it.

DEMARINI GUY: So that is the paint. You can see the composite. That is a chip in the paint there at the end of the bat. Now is there anything really wrong with this bat? No. You probably won’t be able to use it in a game, but a kid could take it to the cage.

Roy: But feel this.

Rob: OH, OK. So is that from hitting a ball?

Roy: Probably hitting a ball. This one is dented also. So again, this is no warranty, no warranty. These are bats I am just eating. So again, they are just sitting here. I should have just taken them to the dumpster, but, anyway.

DEMARINI GUY: So yes. Performance outweighs durability by far.


DEMARINI GUY: If a kid is hitting great with a bat, he doesn’t care how many times he breaks it. He is not going to change bats. It is just that way. That is why he stays in business, because people want…

OK. So that is the CF4 high end composite. Was $279 last year. It is $299 this year because we did so well with it. We are going to jack up the price, but you are getting a little bit more.

The Ultimate Weapon. You will be stocking up on those. They went to the original Ultimate Weapon, all silver looking bat. It is in the catalogue. It is ugly. It is really ugly.

Rob: From 1979?

DEMARINI GUY: It is old school. I don’t know. There might be some guys who want it.

Rob: So they were like, “Hey, we don’t have to hire the graphic design department! We can just fire them!”

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah. “Use this one! It is retro!”

So, CF4, $299, -10, -9, -8, all same price. -8 is going to be really end loaded, smaller barrel. The -10 and the -9 are going to be more balanced. That was different than last year, because the –9 last year was end loaded. The -9 this year is going to be balanced.

Roy: The CF3’s are now all price protection, correct?


Roy: One hot thing that we have is we have the -9 in the CF3 that we bought as a closeout. So presently, where everything is $280 and $299, we are $199 on that bat because we bought it as they were getting rid of it.

DEMARINI GUY: I think there is a market out there for that -9.

Roy: I think so. It is a stronger girl. Hey, they sell it at Rocket Tech. But I guess my question is unrelated to product and what not. Have you or can you look into CF3’s, like, “Hey, OK. It is over.”

I mean it is August basically. All this is over. Everybody is winding down now because seasons are finishing come now. So the question is, from a CF3 standpoint, white, do they have…?

DEMARINI GUY: Any left? I wonder if they do. I bet they are holding some for blems and stuff like that. Not blems, replacements. I wonder if they do have any. I will check into it.

OK. So then you go from that to the Vendetta. This is a $199 composite fast pitch bat. C6 composite, which is a step down from our pitch black composite, which is going to be the single wall wider weave. That is going to be the difference.

Instead of your double wall tight weave it is going to be your single wall wider weave. It is going to come with the hybrid handle with the rails technology in it. So you are going to get a little bit more flex in this bat. It is going to give you a little more whip through.

You are going to get a big barrel on this. This is going to be a price point item at $199. He sells it all day at $199.

Roy: It is a great bat. The person who buys that bat is the girl that wants a composite performance bat but physically cannot swing a -8, -9, or -10 drop in a composite bat. So they have to go something like this, or the Mikken Rain, or the Easton Crystal.

DEMARINI GUY: And this market is really growing. I would say this is probably the fastest growing market, that travel ball…

Roy: And also, too, it is made in smaller sizes, like 29, 30 inch where these girls are 9, 10, 11 years old and they are spending $200 retail on that bat. The other ones are $250 and $300, not to say they wouldn’t spend it. They would, but they just can’t swing it.

Rob: What percentage of folks on a team could swing the heavier bat?

Roy: It is a very hard question to answer. It depends on the team.

DEMARINI GUY: This bat is mostly going to your travel team, starting at age 13 or 14. I would say this bat is more geared for your 10…

Roy: The girls that are hardcore can swing those high end performance bats because your results are better with those high end performance bats, if physical you can swing it. If you can’t, it is just working against you. You are going to be late on everything. You are not going to be able to get the bat to do its dance, so to speak, and make it perform. So therefore you can go into something that is going to give you good performance but is lighter.

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah. You are getting 2 ounces lighter. You are going to get a really long balanced barrel. It has a huge sweet spot on here.

Rob: That is the Vendetta?

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah, this is the Vendetta for girl’s fast pitch.

Roy: We started this year with like 300 of those. That is our stocking order.

DEMARINI GUY: And you have sold tons.

Roy: It is a good number. Again, it is for that girl that is only 80 pounds.

DEMARINI GUY: And again, you are going to get the flex absorber. So for your younger girl who doesn’t want to sting her hands, you have got the hybrid handle here with the rails that absorb the vibration through the bat. It has been a really solid bat for us over the last year.

Rob: Just an aside on the sales levels of bats for you. Just take fast pitch bats in the past year. Can you bucket sales like, “OK. This one is…Our best sellers are huge.” At what point…You said like a 300 initial order.

Roy: Well I think that our initial order was 300, which we just got in like last month. That basically is what I am considering my 2010 order. Prior to that, we might have said, “Give me six of every size right down the line.” And then all of a sudden it is like every week, “Give me 12 more 30’s. Give me another 12 32’s.” It was just continuous. Every week, every other week, we keep on getting more and more and more. It was like, “When is this going to stop?” It just kept on going.

DEMARINI GUY: We had a price point here that nobody was hitting for a while.

Roy: This bat and the Crystal were kind of the only ones. And actually, one of the reasons of course also, too, is that they offered a great deal on it. They had buy 12 get one; baker’s dozen. So I took advantage of the baker’s dozen and said no problem. I will look at my numbers, see what I did.

DEMARINI GUY: This year, new to the line is going to be the Vendetta fast pitch aluminum bat double wall. Last year it was the Voodoo up there, a double wall aluminum bat with the C6 composite handle. This year it is going to be the Vendetta double wall aluminum, and you are going to have the rails handle there for the girls, available in a -11.

Roy: -10 and -11?

DEMARINI GUY: I think it is just going to be -11.

Roy: Just -11?

DEMARINI GUY: -11. Just -11. So you are going to have the -12 in the Vendetta and this Vendetta aluminum in a -11. And then also this year, instead of Cat bat at $99, we just did a paint job and we did a new bat. It is going to be this bat. This is a $99 bat, aluminum. It comes with our FRC handle. This is just a tool that absorbs vibration through the bat.

This is more of your traditional fast pitch bat where you see the skinny handle that goes into a long barrel like that opposed to those two. This is for your lower end player who wants a good bat. And you sell a lot of these, too.

This year it is going to be called the Bustos.

Christa Bustos is the best female hitter in the entire world. Do you know who she is? You have to meet her once. Google Christa Bustos one day and you will see.


DEMARINI GUY: Anyway, she is {so strong} She hits homeruns every time up. They like intentionally walk her every time she comes to the plate because they don’t want to pitch to her.

So anyway, we had her design this bat. She is big into neon green. It is probably the {brightest} bat I have ever seen, but so be it. There she is. That is her.

She is a trip. From the streets of LA, rugged. We talked about her tricked out car when I was talking to her. It has the big gold chain with the thing on the bottom of it. Pretty awesome.

The girl knew her hitting, too. She talked about hitting like you wouldn’t believe. Just unbelievable.

So yeah, that will be DeMarini’s four high end bats in fast pitch. The CF43, the high end composite, the best composite, pitch black handle, pitch black barrel. That is $299.

And then the step down to $199 you are going to have the Vendetta in a -12, rails hybrid handle, C6 composite barrel.

Then a step down from that at $179 you will have the Vendetta aluminum double wall, rails.

And then at $99 you will have the Bustos, which is just going to be your basic aluminum bat.


DEMARINI GUY: Why didn’t you get any of the J2’s?

Roy: I did. The white..?

DEMARINI GUY: The white J2.

Roy: The white steel?

DEMARINI GUY: No. The J2. This one. It has got the black and white graphics on it.

Roy: Dang salesman. I don’t know. Where is it?

DEMARINI GUY: I don’t know. I don’t know why you didn’t get any. You are probably missing out on all kinds of sales.

Roy: I would have not not ordered it.

DEMARINI GUY: It was on early release. I think you just picked one of them. You didn’t want to do both of the high end ones for some reason. All right. Slow pitch.


DEMARINI GUY: J2 slow pitch softball. Again, all slow pitch bats are going to be 34 inch. 26, 27, 28 ounce.

Rob: Why is that? What are all slow pitch bats 34 inch?

DEMARINI GUY: Just the way it is.

Rob: You have little bitty dudes playing. You have big old hosses playing.

DEMARINI GUY: That is true. You are never going to have a bat that is more than 34 inches, though. The thing about it, with 34 inches you are getting a longer barrel on it. It is more about the weight. I think they figure that in men’s softball, anyone swing a 34 inch bat. It is not like you have to catch up to someone whipping one at you.

The J2 is the first one that is out there. This is based off our Juggernaut bat which is the bat that we had last year. It was a popular two piece bat that we had. This year’s is made with the same materials as our high end baseball and fast pitch bats.

Pitch black composite handle, pitch black composite barrel. That is the J2. So you are just going to have a composite, composite.

Roy: Did you go over the 1?

DEMARINI GUY: I am going to do that right now.

Rob: So why is it called a J2?

DEMARINI GUY: We had a little bit of name recognition with the Juggernaut, which was a pretty good bat for us. We sold that for the last two years. This one was just supposed to be the next version of that, because it is built the same way. So we went with the J2, which is the next version.

Rob: But it is identical in materials to the…?

DEMARINI GUY: Yes. The CF4 got its name recognition in…First they had in baseball as a CF3 and then we kind of transferred it over to softball over the last year. But in slow pitch there never was a CF3, so that is why it had a different name. But same materials.

This is a brand new bat for us. This is the one we call The 1. This has a brand new composite we call our 4.1 composite. The 4.1 composite is meant to feel more like a one piece bat.

The standard for slow pitch softball, the best bat ever created, was the Mikken Freak. Mikken made a bat a couple year sago…

Roy: The Ultra.

DEMARINI GUY: The Ultra, not the Freak. The Mikken Ultra was the best performing slow pitch bat that ever existed. It was a one piece bat. The more you hit it the hotter it got. It just continually performed. There are guys today that will pay an extreme amount of money to get that bat.

Roy: It is illegal most places.

DEMARINI GUY: It is illegal, but it was just the hottest bat ever made. So that was kind of the standard throughout. It was a one piece bat. It was a real stiff bat, but it really performed well.

Guys who use DeMarini for a long time like the two piece feel. They like a little bit extra flex. They like the Juggernaut. We do miss out on the market. The guy who likes the one piece Mikken’s that are over there doesn’t like our bat because he likes a little bit of stiffer feel.

So we wanted to try to get everybody involved. So we made this bat, which is a 4.1 on our flex meter. Again, our stiffest bat that we make other than this is a 3.5. This one is a 4.1 on our scale of five. It is as stiff as you could possibly swing. There is not going to be a lot of flex in it. It is going to feel more like a one piece bat. So that is why we did that.

Double wall composite. Stiff composite barrel, stiff composite handle. Everything else is going to be the same, it is just going to be a stiffer composite that feels like a one piece bat. We are doing pretty well with this bat. I have seen a lot of them on the field. I don’t know how you have sold them.

Roy: I have sold them pretty good.

DEMARINI GUY: It has been selling. It is a good bat. It looks sharp. It is one piece. So we are doing well with that.

So on the high end composite at $299, you are going to have the J2, which is going to be a pitch black composite barrel, pitch black composite handle, little more flex. And then you are going to have the 1, which is going to be a stiffer feeling composite bat with a 4.1 composite barrel. That is going to differentiate the two high end softball bats. J2 is going to have a little more flex. The 1 is going to be a little stiffer feel.

Step down from that, at $249 is going to be the Creature. You are going from our pitch black composite and our 4.1 composite to the C6 composite. Same composite that is in the Vendetta. Single wall. Any time you see C6 composite it is going to be the wider weave single wall. Just like in the Vendetta here, just like in the Vendetta C6 there. Same composite.

So this is going to be a single wall composite bat, wider weave, same thing. And this is an older barrel for us that we used to use. It is called our CRC handle.


That is just a carbon reinforced barrel. It is just a different type of composite barrel. It is older. But that is at $249.

The F4 is going to be our double wall aluminum, our C6 composite shaft. So it is going to be a white C6 composite with a double wall aluminum barrel. He is getting a bunch of them coming in this way. C6 composite handle. So F4 is going to be double wall aluminum, composite handle. SC4 alloy, which is our top end alloy, and then you get the C6 composite wider weave composite handle.

The next step down from that is going to be the 375. This bat is specifically made to hit the 375 compression slow pitch softballs which most leagues use. It is made of our DM1 alloy, which is a different type of alloy than our SC4. And it is going to be double wall aluminum one piece. So that is where we are a little bit different here. This 375 is just going to be a one piece alloy bat.

Rob: Is that the only one piece bat you make?

DEMARINI GUY: That and the Ultimate Weapon are both one piece. So 375, one piece, aluminum, double wall, specifically geared to the 375 softball. It has got our DM1 alloy on that.

Next from that is going to be our steel, AKA, our old White steel.

Roy: Is that the burgundy color?

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah. It is actually a really sharp looking bat. It has got our C6 composite handle, so same handle that is on the F4, that is on the Vexxum, that is on every C6 bat that we make. Except this one is going to have our steel single wall barrel. It is going to be one of the few bats that you will on the market that is going to be single wall. It is made of steel as opposed to aluminum. So it is going to have a really teeny ringy effect to it.

A lot of leagues are now going to, “You can’t use double wall bats or composite bats.”

Rob: Because of the trampoline?

DEMARINI GUY: Because of the trampoline. Old men get hit in the face with balls. So if you have a league specific to using a single wall bat, this is a good bat to have.

Roy: Very good.

DEMARINI GUY: C6 composite handle, steel barrel. Good bat. Does well for us. The F4 is $229. The 375 is $199.95. The Steel is $189.95.

Roy: They all sell pretty good.

DEMARINI GUY: Again, we have different price points. They are slightly different bats. Again, the slow pitch player can be the most fickle customer you will ever meet in your life. Really.

Roy: Arrogant. Lot of chuckleheads.

DEMARINI GUY: So yeah. So the Steel is good. Does it perform as well as the other ones? No. But as a single wall bat, for a league that is specifically single wall, it does really well, and it is under $200.

Roy: I have been at tournaments when I start talking to guys. They are like, “I love this! This is the only bat I swing with.” Then later on they get up and swing, and I am like, “I have seen third graders swing better than you! Are you kidding me?” These guys talk like they are…

Everyone coach thinks he is Joe Torre and every guy thinks he is Derek Jeter. It is like, “OK. Good. You are tremendous dude. If I ever want to learn how to pop up to the pitcher, I will call you.”

DEMARINI GUY: Yeah, so for a single wall specific league, that is a good bat. And then the Ultimate Weapon, which has been around forever. This year again. It is the 20th anniversary. Space Age alloy, it says it right on there for the Ultimate Weapon this year.

Rob: I thought the space age was like in the ‘60s.

---------------------------------- END OF DEMARINI ---------------------

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Roy: Just go briefly over the bats, kind like baseball and little league and whatever. And let’s just kind of chat about the whole nanotech thing and what it is and etc.

Anderson Guy: Do you want to get into some of the technical aspects of the nanotech first?

Roy: That is fine.

Anderson Guy: If you think about it, there are really three or four technologies that Anderson uses in their bats. They use a double wall. And they use two version of the double wall, and I will show you the difference.

One is an internal sleeve and one is an external sleeve. Then we do this new nanotech technology. And then we do just a basic Pyrotech single wall bat. So if you consider that you have the two double wall technologies, internal and external, you could possibly count that as two, but otherwise it is three technologies.

Rob: Can you explain what an internal and external sleeve is?

Anderson Guy: I will show you the difference. We will start with baseball first. We will go the way the catalogue goes and then we will go into internal/external sleeves. I am going to show you a couple Conways, too.

So when you go back, you can look at the arches, the power arches, the foam and all that stuff, you will see how all that stuff works. Did you get a chance to read that stuff that…

Roy: I just read the first little bit.

Anderson Guy: How does it look? Is it pretty much what you need, do you think? I haven’t seen it.

Rob: For me it is marketing copy that I either need to dumb down or wash all the marketing speak off of it.

Anderson Guy: I have not read it. Apparently that is the way he described it. He described it as sort of a mix of advertising talk and conversational pieces.

Roy: I would say you need to dumb that down.

Anderson Guy: If you go to the first page, this is just going to give you three ideas of the technology that they use. The first just gives you the information on the vibration that flex management…That part probably doesn’t mean all that much. The key is the second part, which is the power arch multi-wall construction. That is the double wall that we were talking about.

And then the next section is acoustic enforcement technology. That is the foam, and I will show how that works. I was going to show you in the core of the bat and also show you this foam that is a separate piece and how they do all that stuff.

So when you go to the page after that then, you have the Nanotech category, the Nanotech Excess which is there adult baseball bat. This is a new technology that they came out with. They have been working on it for about 10 years. It shows you the little diagrams that talk about the grains in the bat. The simple principle is that when they do this nanotech alloy, it makes it very durable. In baseball and softball, the idea is if you can thin the wall of bats and make them very flexible, you are able to hit the ball a lot better.

The problem is when you do that they are not as durable. So they bend a lot easier. So the feeling always was you have got to figure out a way to make the walls durable but thin enough that you can get that trampoline effect of the ball off the bat. And they think they have discovered that way to do that.

So what they are doing is they take this nanotech technology. They apply it to the barrel of the bat. And you can tell…I have another sample in the car. But you see where this little break is here and that break is there?

That is actually the hitting surface. Usually the sweet spot of a typical baseball or softball bat is very small. This is the sweet spot of the bat on this particular nanotech technology, both on this one and on the kids bat. So you have a much larger hitting surface. Very durable, very flexible, and the thing lasts like crazy.

The sample that I have in the bag I bring to batting cages and let them use the thing. You just beat it up and you wash it off. The thing doesn’t dent at all. It is goods for thousand and thousands of hits. It hits well, plays well, but very durable. It is also very expensive.

Rob: What is the price point on that?

Anderson Guy: It is $500 retail. The regular one piece price is $249.

Rob: It is an alloy, so it is all metal?

Anderson Guy: It is all metal. No composites at all. They had a composite bat in the lineup one time. I am sure you are aware of all the stuff that took place last year of all the composite changes with ASA and USSSA. So they are completely out of the composite business here. They don’t want to mess with composites. They think aluminum alloy is the way to go.

I just got this sample yesterday. You have the adult version.

Rob: So what is the difference between that bat…?

Anderson Guy: Same bat. This is just a kid’s version. This is senior league, so the way the catalogue breaks down, you have adult, which is the regular Nanotech Excess, then you get down to Senior leagues, Nanotech XT. So that one is a -5. With the adult bat it is a -3. Other than that it is the same technology.

So those two bats are the same. And then you get down into this next one, this KXR bat, and this does not use the Nanotech technology. It is a single wall bat. I just got that sample yesterday.

Roy: Did you have any printouts of those, of the Nanotech’s?

Anderson Guy: No they don’t, because it is a regular single wall. The only ones that we do cutouts on are the double walls because it is a slightly different technology that DeMarini is using in their double walls, and you will see that when I show you these samples.

Rob: As far as durability goes, like returns, do you see returns on the Anderson bats as a percentage?

Roy: No. Granted, yeah, we sell more of the other manufacturers, but at the same time…The only thing I could say as far as return problems, the Rocket Tech tends to kind of dimple up a little bit.

Anderson Guy: And actually they claim that the bat is not playing well until they dimple. That is an unfortunate part of the situation, because the consumer will look at the bat and go, “The thing is dimpling. There is something wrong.” It doesn’t start playing well until it starts dimpling!

Roy: Right. Once there are those peaks and valleys and it is able to flex even more because of those peaks and valleys, then it gives off a better response and a little bit more energy.

But there are no defective issues as far as I am concerned with Anderson. If I had to pin one company, it would be Combat. They are high, high, high on return rate.

Anderson Guy: What is happening with those?

Roy: They are just breaking. I mean it is a composite. They only do composites and they just seem to crack.

Anderson Guy: I wonder what is going to happen to them with all this composite stuff going on.

Roy: College isn’t really where that business is because there is such a small fraction of kids that are playing college baseball. So it is an 18 and under business. But what will happen to the baseball business going forward with the new BB core, with new different things like colleges saying, “Hey, you can’t play with a composite bat,” will high school follow suit. There are so many different things.

However, truth be told at this point, there are not going to be any changes I am sure for a couple of years because they can’t do that to the manufacturer. They have built their 2010 line. They can’t just all of a sudden go, “Oh, in 2011…” It is not going to happen. It is like a 3-4 year process before they kind of wean all of it out.

You are talking tens of millions of dollars that the manufacturer would be screwed for that is not sellable. What are they going to do?

Rob: Do they have to telegraph what they are doing to the manufacturers?

Roy: Well they will present their case to the manufacturers. I am sure that is what their meetings where. Every year they have all these different meetings. If this is the direction that they want to go, the manufacturers need to be abreast of what the direction they are going is so that they can make the proper changes.

So whether making this new, where we have the BESR certification now, and they are going to change to the BB Core certification, those BESR bats which are legal now will not be legal going forward. It is not like, “Hey. Next year we are going to change.” It is like, “Well gosh. We have all this inventory and so does the retailer, so it has got to run through the system so that we can get out of it.”

So it is not going to change overnight. It may be several years down the road when they change. But there is talk of, “Hey, we don’t want composites period.”

Rob: Because they are too hot?

Roy: They seem to be the hotter bat, yeah. They seem to have been performing great and performing better with use and getting hotter and hotter as you use it until it finally breaks.

Combat’s probably was that the bat was just breaking. When you use it it was hot as S#!%, but then it would just break. Whether you used it a week or you used it six months, it was just breaking.

So you think of a manufacturer selling a bat to us and then they are replacing it once or twice thereafter. They say, “Hey, we only replace a bat one time.” But if a kid buys a bat and after a week it breaks, and then you replace it and the kid breaks it in a month, what are you going to say, that you can use the bat for five six weeks and thank you?”

Anderson Guy: Did Combat give you a length of time?

Roy: None of the manufacturers give a length of time, but I think that it is kind of case by case where if they feel that…I think it is only being fair. “Hey, we will be fair with this.” Fair is if it breaks immediately, or if it breaks in a month or two months, and then they get another one and it breaks in a month, and the kid has gotten three months out of it, that is really not fair.

If a kid uses a bat for eight months and then breaks it and gets a new one and uses it for a month or two, all bets are off.

Anderson Guy: Because there is no telling what he did to break that bat.

Roy: That is more of the softball player’s mentality that do things like that, not so much the little leaguer. But Combat is on the map in little league. They are not so much on the map really in…Senior league, they are kind of getting there. High school, not yet. But as the kids progress into those categories I think it will follow through.

So they are doing pretty well. Yeah, granted we sell three or four different models from them, so it is not a ton, but it is getting bigger.

Anderson Guy: Yeah, they are doing well. You hear the name all the time. They are certainly growing. That is for sure.

When you have a chance, take a look at the catalogue and look at one of those previous descriptions on the Acoustic Enhancement Technology on the first page. You see that it is sort of a circular piece with a hole in it. That technology is on all the single wall bats. It is not on the double wall bats.

This particular bat, and you can look in all of them because they have clear end caps on them, they call these bullet proof caps, but you can see this foam inside the bat. This is what it looks like and what it feels like. And you can see that it is a circular piece and you can see the hole that comes through it.

So the idea is that they want to keep the noise and vibration down, and that is on all the single wall bats. So you will see it on the Nanotech’s and also on these single walls on the Pyrotech.

Rob: Now the reason they do that is because it doesn’t sound good and they are trying to dampen the sound?

Anderson Guy: They just want to keep the sound down.

Roy: It doesn’t cut down on performance, though.

Anderson Guy: No. It just cuts down on the vibration as well, but it is mostly a sound issue.

Roy: A real high pitched bat is like a Japanese bat. If you ever see them play, all their bats have a very, very high pitch ping; super high pitched. Real loud.

Anderson Guy: And they would rather have this sound like a baseball bat than to get that ping in there that you hear on some of the other aluminum bats.

Roy: Also, 30% of the Japanese baseball players have gone deaf.


Anderson Guy: These are all American made, by the way. It may be a little bit of a misnomer, but they say they are all the only fully American made bat left. What that could mean is that Easton may be making some in America, some overseas, and Louisville may be making some in the states and some overseas…

Roy: I think that they are not. I think that they are all making them overseas now.

Rob: So they are made and assembled in the US with Anderson?

Anderson Guy: Yes. They are made up the street from the address that you see on all the catalogues in California. So they are not shipping the stuff over the border and sending them back assembled and all that stuff. They are made right in Orange County California.

So I guess for them to make that claim they would have to be fairly accurate with that statement or somebody would be calling them on it I am sure.

Rob: Well some can be assembled in the US and still have Made in the USA. But they are not doing that?

Anderson Guy: They are not doing that. Consumers can go on the web and they will show you some of the manufacturing that they do in California.

Roy: So what is the difference, as far as baseball bats go, in the Pyrotech and the Nanotech?

Anderson Guy: Well the Pyrotech, either in baseball or in softball, is a simple technology. It is a single wall technology. It uses a fairly normal extrusion. In the Nanotech it is an entirely different extrusion. It is very durable, very long lasting, much larger sweet spot.

Roy: Is it a different grade of aluminum?

Anderson Guy: Yes.

Roy: End caps are the same or different?

Anderson Guy: End caps are the same. They use the same end cap all the way through. They use that bulletproof end cap. You will see a slight difference in the way they install the end cap on the double walls compared to the single walls.

So since we are talking about it, if you look at the bottom of that bat you will see that it inserts on the end of the bat. If you look at these double walls you will see that there is this groove around here. In order to set that in tightly, this end cap, they do that groove and it really works well.

That way they don’t have any pins to hold in the end cap and you don’t get any pinging and loss of the cap during use of the bat.

Rob: So the Nanotech metal is aluminum?

Anderson Guy: It is aluminum. It is a different extrusion. The picture explains the way the grains of aluminum are extruded. A fairly typical extruded aluminum has these much larger grains. But in this Nanotech technology, the way they treat it, much smaller grains makes it durable.

And it strengthens the thing, which is really the key to the whole thing, because you can, again, make a larger sweet spot, use thinner walls, get that trampoline effect without worrying about losing any durability.

Rob: So when everybody says that these walls are the thinnest they can make, do you say how thin the walls are?

Anderson Guy: They would know that. I tell you the truth. I don’t know that. But since they are the engineers and they manufacture all that stuff, they would have that information if you need it.

Rob: That would just be interesting to see, because everybody is talking about…We talked to five different people and it is like, “Our walls are the thinnest and get the biggest trampolining effect.” It is like, OK.

Roy: You think that one of them would take all the bats, cut them in half, and then measure it and see.

Anderson Guy: I am sure that it gets to a point on these aluminums that there has got to be a failure rate. So you want to get as thin as you possibly can.

So that is all the information on baseball. In softball, in fast pitch, on the page to the right you are going to notice there are three styles of bats. They start of with Techzilla. Then they go to the Rocket Tech. And then they go to the Pyrotech.

And again, I would say that, depending on how you view it, on that particular page there may be as many as three different technologies. The top two bats, the techzilla and the Rocket Tech, are both double wall bats. The Pyrotech is a single wall bat. And they are all aluminum.

These are cutaways. This happens to be the cutaway of a youth baseball bat. This shows you that power arch and the difference between our bat and a DeMarini bat.

Originally when Demarini came out, that was just a double shell.

Roy: It was a shell within a shell.

Anderson Guy: Yeah. And they would take a machine and they would slam that inside piece into it to give it that trampoline effect. So on both the Techzilla and on the Rocket Tech, we both use this power arch. It is the same technology on those two bats.

Here is the cutaway. You have got this arch that runs all the way through it. The idea is that it gives a little more power and brings the vibration and power down the barrel.

Roy: So is the thought of that inner-core the through process of, “OK. Our bat is now dimpling,” you are dimpling it inside to create more peaks and valleys to create more energy.

Anderson Guy: You get more energy and power. And the dimpling comes from the inside of that arch. So when people see it and they go, “The bat is going bad. It is dimpling,” it is really not. It is playing very well at that point.

Rob: It is just showing the inner shell?

Anderson Guy: It is just showing the inner shell. Now the two pieces that you have here and the one that Roy has there, that is the Rocket Tech. That was the first double wall bat that they made. That is an external sleeve.

So if you look at the difference you will see that the barrel runs down here and there is a break here. So in this case, instead of doing like the DeMarini where they take the inner core, that inner barrel, and jam it into the shell of the bat, they actually did it on the outside.

On that one, on the Techzilla, it is on the inside. So we have an outer shell double wall and an inner shell double wall. What happens with these two bats, and particularly with fast pitch, and the reason they did it, this comes in a -9, the Rocket Tech. This was their first bat that they came out with. This is a heavier bat, so you have to be a little better player to use it.

Roy: It is definitely considered a top heavy bat, but very popular.

Anderson Guy: It was their number one selling bat. The Techzilla is starting to take up speed. This is only about a year old. And the reason that is starting to do well is that is a little lighter and that is a balanced bat, where this is an end loaded bat. An end loaded bat is a little harder to play with.

Rob: Which one is end loaded?

Anderson Guy: The Rocket Tech is end loaded. The Techzilla is a balanced bat and lighter. So that is a little more agreeable and forgiving to more ballplayers than this one.

So they think that eventually that will end up passing the Rocket Tech in sales.

Rob: So on the internal sleeve the handle is really what is inside the interior wall? It is the same piece?

Anderson Guy: That is correct. So you see external, and then internal, nice and smooth, and it looks like a traditional baseball or softball bat.

Roy: In reality, you look at the Rocket Tech, the one in Steve’s left hand, the red one, the red part is like the part that is not there originally and it just goes over, where the other one is more of the pushed in one.

Anderson Guy: And both of them, as you can see, have a groove in the end of the barrel so that you can set that end cap, as compared to the baseball bats where it is smooth.

They are going to make some other changes, too. They haven’t announced them, but what they are going to end up doing is they are going to take the Nanotech technology and bring it into some of these fast pitch bats. And you will see that information sometime in the early fall for spring 2010. So they may end up taking the Pyrotech and changing it over to the Nanotech.

Roy: It needs to change. It is a little tired, I think.

Anderson Guy: Yeah. It was a price point bat. But at least in these other bats they have something to talk about, some other technology, where on the regular single wall, the Pyrotech, it is a price point item.

Roy: Yeah. Those bats are $200+ where the Pyrotech is like $120.

Anderson Guy: That is almost exactly the price point. And we are talking wholesale not retail, so it is about $120 at wholesale for a Pyrotech, but the Rocket Tech and the Techzilla are up in the $250-$325 range. The Nanotech baseball bat is a $500 retail bat.And then they map it and you are allowed to drop off a certain discount structure. So at retail you would be able to go down to about $400.

Rob: So these are pretty high end bats.

Anderson Guy: Very high end bats.

Roy: Well all of the top end bats from Easton, DeMarini, etc, -3 bats, they are all $400 and up, all of them. This past year, 2009, they were all $389, $379, $389.

I remember when we were going over $100 and going, “Oh my God.”

Anderson Guy: Everybody was having a heart attack.

Roy: “Let’s find new business to go into.” And how far away are we from $500? Can you imagine that?

Anderson Guy: And now we are here. And who knows what the next technology will bring.

Roy: But if it hits the ball further, people will buy it.

Rob: You were talking about on the sweet spot, the little indention there in the Anderson logo and to the left of the A. That is the…?

Anderson Guy: That is the sweet spot.

Rob: That is not just on the demo, that is on every bat?

Anderson Guy: That is on every bat. They call that it a launch pad. They don’t call it a sweet spot. That is the terminology that they are using. That is how big the sweet spot is on that particular bat, both on the -8 and on the -3 which is the adult bat. So that is the size of the sweet spot.

Rob: So does it sound very different when somebody hits it not on the launch pad?

Anderson Guy: It does not, because the Nanotech actually runs down from the break in the bat through the taper, so you won’t hear much of a difference. They also wanted that, because of that foam inside, you get that baseball sound through it. You don’t get that ping on it.

Rob: When you say baseball sound, I don’t understand.

Anderson Guy: Well in the old days you played with wooden bats, and you hit the ball and you had a whack to it. That is the way it sounds. Then they went into cheap aluminum in the beginning and you hear a ping. It sounds like a golf club hitting a golf ball. Some people don’t like that noise.

Rob: But that is a pretty subjective thing? We watch a lot of college baseball and hear the aluminum sound. But when we hear that, though, that is a good sound.

Anderson Guy: Yeah, because they are whacking the ball like crazy.

Roy: It is a preference thing.

Rob: So it is subjective. And you were saying that the foam is for bat sting as much as noise dampening?

Anderson Guy: They say it is all for noise. But anytime you put a little foam on aluminum you are going to get some vibration dampening on it. So it takes a little of the sting out of it.

Rob: Roy, do you have any bats that are dimpled that we could look at to show that or take pictures of?

Roy: I don’t think that pictures will do it any justice.

Rob: Is it really hard to see?

Roy: Yeah. …


Rob: With other manufacturers are those interior walls ribbed like that?

Roy: No. This is more of a dent actually. I wouldn’t call it a rib. As stupid as this sounds, there is a very easy way of feeling it. If you put a shirt, a piece of cloth, or just a hand towel or something over this, then you can feel how much more it is dented.

You really can’t take a picture of that.

Rob: Is that dimpling?

Roy: No, that is dented. In reality, what they do is they have like a test where you put this ring over it. And then what happens is if it doesn’t hit the table, the ground, or whatever you want to call it, they consider it out of round or too far out of round.

Rob: One more time.

Roy: See, if it hits the ground that is legal. Actually, this is a 2 ¼ inch diameter barrel. So this is basically the same thing, a 2 ¼ or a softball bat. See? It goes right down to the floor.

So even if it is dimpled and they say, “Hey, my bat is dented.” I will take the ring and I will go, “Yes it is dented, rippled, but they still consider it a bat that is in round, and that is legal.”

Rob: Is that something that we could include with orders for people to test their bats with and make a promotional item?

Roy: I have had this for 10 years. I have never seen this anywhere. Umpires, on occasion, will have something like this. Other than that I have never seen it.

Rob: It is neat how people get around patents and do all kinds of crazy stuff to call it different.

Anderson Guy: Yeah, they are all fishing for some other way to make it unique and different.

So those first two fast pitch bats, we have those two different types of double walls. And then the Pyrotech, again, is the same type of technology that we did on the single wall on the other bat; very basic $130 wholesale bat, dampening core on the inside, and single wall extrusion.

Then when we get to the next page you get to slow pitch, and it is the same idea all over again, because you are going to see the Techzilla, the Rocket Tech, and you see the Pyrotech. Same technologies, just done in a different weighting format. The fast pitch is all done by weights, meaning inches minus ounces, and the slow pitch is done with ounces. So all this is just measured a little differently, but the technology is the same. Two double walls, one single wall, and slightly different price points.

Rob: And do they do the same thing? Do they shave the aluminum off to make the different swing weight because they all have to be 34 inch?

Anderson Guy: Yeah.

Rob: So where does that weight come out? Do they take it in different places?

Anderson Guy: Yeah, all throughout the whole bat. Did you have to review all of Louisville’s…Was he showing you 2010?

Roy: Just bats. Yeah. Just bats. It is pretty easy to go through and just kind of touch on the different…I mean it is very repetitive. You look at the baseball bats, they are the same in each category, Triton, Triton, Triton, Triton, whether it is little league, senior league, slow pitch, fast pitch. So really what we are looking for is technology or language on those items. So other than, “Hey, this is a different weight or a different barrel diameter, it is the same.”

For example, in, say, slow pitch or fast pitch, the Rocket Tech or Techzilla. It is the same bat. The rocket tech in the slow pitch is 34 inches only, and 26, 28, and so on and so forth. Whereas the other ones are different. The fast pitch version is 30-34 inches where the other one starts at 34 and gives you other ounce options.



Rob: Worth slow pitch bats.

Worth Guy: If you go on any major chat boards for slow pitch you will see that Worth is predominately the number one player. Roy is just not in tune.

Roy: Well let’s look at the statistics on the website and see how many Worth bats sell.

Worth Guy: We will start with the Jeff Hall Mutant. Jeff Hall was a big time muscle head. In the slow pitch softball world he is a real popular guy. He is under contract with us, that is why we have the Jeff Hall Mutant.

This is a two piece construction. It is a composite handle with an aluminum barrel. These bats have half ounce end loads, so it is 26.5, 27.5, 28.5 ounce.

Rob: When you say end loads…?

Worth Guy: It is balanced differently. It is a little bit heavier than a regular slow pitch bat. And there is more weight distributed towards the end. This bat is basically for a big muscle head; one of these guys that is taking steroids and is huge. This is the bat that they would prefer to use.

Roy: So it is an end loaded bat. So it is a USSSA bat only?

Worth Guy: Yeah. Most of what we are going to do is USSSA. A year or two ago ASA had a ruling and they changed their ruling around. So pretty much ASA bats, the last few years, have really been on decline. The demand has been for the bats that were produced two or three years older that are grandfathered in.

With these new standards on the slow pitch, basically the composites can’t break down. On a composite bat, when it starts performing is when the composites break down. But within the new ruling of the ASA, these bats…

Roy: So it is a composite handle, metal barrel?

Worth Guy: Yeah.

Rob: So why do composite bats getter hotter when they break down?

Worth Guy: The resin. The material breaks down and has better performance features to it. A couple of the other things we do, like technical jargon bullS#!%. Like this, the EIP.

Rob: What does that mean?

Worth Guy: I don’t know what it stands for, but it is the way they construct the bat. Basically the resin particles we use for the composites are much smaller than in years past.

So we put the composites into this shell, or into the tube for the bat, and then what they do is they rapidly remove the air. So when you get an air pocket in the bat, that is less composite material and that is sort of like dead space. So you want to try to fit as many composite particles as tightly together, which will elongate the sweet spot.

Rob: But like on this one, it is just a composite handle?

Worth Guy: Right. It would be more in the handle so you get more flex. But like in these two, the Resmondo Titan and the regular Titan, these are 100% composite so there is much more flex in these bats.

Rob: But that is approved by ASA?

Worth Guy: The Jeff Hall Mutant, the Resmondo Titan, and the Titan are strictly USSSA.

Rob: What percentage of softball players are playing in leagues that can use that bat?

Roy: It depends on what part of the country you are from. In this part, like in New Jersey, for example, it is basically usually 100% ASA. Unless you are playing in pickup or a lot of the Spanish leagues. They are more just standard everyday stuff.


Rob: All right. So we got the…

Worth Guy: That is the Jeff Hall Mutant. Then we have the Resmondo Titan. Resmondo is, again, a top notch slow pitch elite team. I think they are based out of California. But consistently they are one of the top teams at that elite level. We have a contract with them and that is why they have a bat named after them as well. It is called the Resmondo Titan.

This is 100% composite. And basically what it is is what we call end loaded. So the weight is more distributed towards the end of the bat than it is balanced.

And again, this would probably be preferred by one of the bigger guys who wants to get a lot of flex in his bat but has a real quick swing. The end load will slow it up a little bit.

Rob: So like a fast strong guy?

Worth Guy: Yes. Then you have the regular Titan. Also 100% composite, but balanced. This would be for the normal guy. The smaller guy who is not all juiced up or not tremendously big, but doesn’t have that quick of a swing but is still looking for the performance at that level.

Roy: All that is based off a balancing issue?

Worth Guy: Yeah.

Roy: Because like a 34…You have the same weights.

Worth Guy: Right. You have the same weights, but it is the way it is balanced. And again, to a novice they probably feel the exact same. But to the slow pitch guy who is really playing four or five times a week, there will be a considerable difference And the guy who is looking to swing a little bit quicker or come through the zone faster, they are probably going to prefer this. A guy who has got too quick of a swing and is looking to slow up is probably going to go with the Resmondo.

Rob: So what about for playing modified? Do you have to use something like that and not something that is end loaded?

Worth Guy: Again, at the end of the day it is still personal preference.

Rob: So you can play modified with an end loaded bat?

Worth Guy: Yes. It is strictly personal preference at the end of the day. So those three that we just mentioned are all USSSA bats. Then we have the Toxic, which is ASA approved.

Rob: And it is less hot than the other?

Worth Guy: Exactly.

Rob: How do they determine that?

Worth Guy: By some crazy, crazy testing standard that you are not going to comprehend and I barely comprehend.

Roy: It is based on the speed the ball comes off the bat.

Worth Guy: Yeah.

Rob: Do they do that to protect the infield and the pitcher from getting killed?

Worth Guy: Yeah, I believe so. The other thing a lot of these guys do is they will shave the bat. So they will take it to somewhere, remove the cap, and then they will shave it down to get even more performance out of it.

Rob: So it is lighter and faster?

Worth Guy: Yeah. It is lighter. And again, it has more of a trampoline effect.

Rob: How do umps catch that?

Worth Guy: On the field it is virtually impossible to detect. And believe it or not, there is like a whole black market of this being done.

Rob: And like rolled bats.

Worth Guy: Exactly. An umpire will just look to see if the bat has the certification. That is all he cares about.

Rob: So it is kind of like corking a bat?

Worth Guy: Yes, in the slow pitch world. So this bat is ASA. It is 100% composite. It won’t break in like these USSSA bats.

Rob: So it just won’t be as hot?

Worth Guy: Yes.

Rob: A lot of people say like hot out of the wrapper.

Worth Guy: These bats here, the thing with them…Also we have what we call the original Mayhem. It is known as the Booger Green. That was known as hot right out of the wrapper. Like I said, it takes time for the composites to break down, so you might have to get a few cuts to get the composites broken down.

Rob: So is that like jeans? Like when you get new blue jeans and they are real stiff?

Worth Guy: Right. You wear them a few times and they begin to break in. Great analogy. That is pretty much the scope of the end line product.

Rob: If somebody is new to playing slow pitch, but they have money to spend, are they going to come in and buy one of these bats?

Worth Guy: I mean, yeah. There is really no in between in softball. If the guy is playing and he is playing competitively, he is going right towards this and he already knows what he wants.

Rob: He doesn’t need a sales pitch. He doesn’t need a buyer’s guide. He is looking for this make and this model and the best price.

Worth Guy: Like I said, if you go onto any of the chat boards, you will see that these bats are…Roy doesn’t believe it, but I am trying to tell him. If you go down South, or Florida, or west into California, Worth is the hottest thing out there. That is all they want.

Rob: Is it because of the USSSA?

Worth Guy: Well we have a great affiliation with USSSA. And these teams, like this Resmondo team, is always in the spotlight. There is also a big competition, bat wars. These bats have always performed very well at Bat Wars.

This bat here actually tested too hot, the Toxic. So we have until December to keep manufacturing them. And then after December we have to discontinue producing it. But it will be grandfathered in.

Rob: Was it OK and then not? Because they changed the way they test things. I mean the first test was for brand new…

Worth Guy: Right. The first one was brand new. Now it is throughout the duration of the bat. I don’t know if they did just a sample testing and they happened to pick one and that one tested, or if they tested 100 and all 100 tested. But that bat is too hot. Same with the fast pitch version of it, the fast pitch Toxic, which is orange.

Rob: Is there a lot of consistency from bat to bat as far as in the manufacturing?

Worth Guy: There definitely should be because it is all automated.

Rob: The same materials. The same process.

Worth Guy: Right. So in theory, yes it should.

Rob: When you guys say hybrid, is that when it is like an aluminum shell and a composite handle?

Worth Guy: Yes.

Rob: Why would you want an aluminum shell versus a composite shell?

Worth Guy: It won’t be as flexible. It is a little stiffer. Aluminum won’t break down when you hit it.

Rob: Why would somebody want a stiffer bat? Is it faster across the plate? Does more power go into the ball? I don’t know anything about softball. I know the web.

Worth Guy: Something that is all composite is going to have break in and you are going to get a tremendous amount of flex off it. A big guy doesn’t really need all that flex because by sheer power he is going to hit the ball far. So he doesn’t need that break in.

So that is why an aluminum…That is why the Jeff Hall has the aluminum barrel. He doesn’t need that flex. His arm is humongous. So just by connecting and hitting the ball it is going to go.

Rob: How much of the bats are about getting the bat to where the ball is going to be so they can hit it, and then how much of the bats are about the power it takes to see how far you can hit it?

Worth Guy: These guys are all…And again, at the end of the day we are talking about a few feet. You are not talking about hitting it out of the infield as opposed to hitting it out of the outfield.

I find it funny, especially with parents who are buying bats for their kids who are playing little league or high school ball. They want to spend $349 on a baseball bat.

At the end of the day, if your kid doesn’t have the basic hand/eye coordination and the skills, I don’t care what you put in your hand. You can put a rocket launcher in his hand. You have got to have the basic fundamentals, the hand/eye coordination, and the swing. And then after that it is all personal preference.

Do you like something more balanced? Do you like it end loaded? What type of swing do you have? That is something, again, that the player who is using this bat is going to figure out.

Rob: So they will use their friend’s bat or they will test different things.

Worth Guy: Right. They will demo it at Bat Wars or somewhere. Or if they are a true diehard they will just be following these chat boards and something picks up steam…

I would definitely recommend reading these chat boards. It is an entire world that me and you don’t {fall into}.

Rob: They will all argue over what…

Worth Guy: Literally everything.

Rob: Right. Every single component.

----------- END OF ROY4.doc -----------

ROY STUFF Blems & Unused demos

Man 1: BLEMS -- We’re still kinda using that as a terminology because people understand it.

Rob: People search for it.

Man 2: There are, and I have probably outside, a couple bats that are blemished. If we have maybe less than 5 total bats that are blemished on the website. However, in demo we probably have a good amount because we just got those in in the last 30 days or so and those pump out pretty good.

As a matter of fact, ironically I was going to say, of course, we haven’t had a return yet, effective about five minutes ago from an email; I have one guy whose bat broke. Send it back. We will replace it no problem.

Rob: So these are unused demos?

Man 2: They are unused demos. That would be a good definition.

Rob: So they are the exact same thing as the regular bat.

Man 2: It has that stamp. I call it engraved; engraving. I don’t want to call it a stamp. Stamps is more…I don’t want them to think, “Oh, we will get it and we will rub it off…” You can’t rub it off.

Rob: Sell it on EBay; yeah, they can’t do that. Engraved. OK.

Man 1: Laser etched I am guessing.

Man 2: Yes. We definitely want you to take some pictures of some demos so people can go, “Oh, OK.”

Man 1: That’s what it means.

Man 2: Because I usually go, “Oh, it’s about the size of your thumbnail; the size of a dime. It’s pretty miniscule. It’s not…”

Man 1: Well we need to get multiples, too so that you can get a perspective of it.

Man 2: It’s not like it is going to say, “Here is your bat…”

Rob: I thought it was going to say demo in 72 point type to where the guys in the outfield could see it. “Ah, its demo! Demo is up at the plate!”



Man 1: Well that’s kind of hard to say. I mean it depends of course how much they grow, how much weight they have put on, how much they physically develop.

Inch. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Well it sounds like the older guy can go with the negative 10. And the younger guy you may want to change out.

I couldn’t answer that. It is hard to say. Obviously, without him here in front of me it is really tough to say, “Can he handle…?” Sure. Sure.

Hmm-hmm. You know. If you were asking for an answer, I would say yes, I would think so. Yes.

OK. Yeah. I mean he knows the kids though, right? Yeah, so there you go. All right? So everything is cancelled. Just resubmit. All right? Thank you.

Rob: Just real quick, what kind of questions was he asking?

Man 1: What I think a lot of the success of the business, or of any business, is that he was able to talk to me, who knew exactly what he was talking about in the questions he was asking, and I could kind of go around and bring up a point.

The hard thing is when he goes, “Well do you think that is too heavy or too light for him?” How the !@#$ would I know? He is not sitting here in front of me.

Rob: OK. Tell him to think about the Whistle Buyer’s guide. You stop getting a bunch of questions.


Hmm-hmm. You know. If you were asking for an answer, I would say yes, I would think so. Yes.

OK. Yeah. I mean he knows the kids though, right? Yeah, so there you go. All right? So everything is cancelled. Just resubmit. All right? Thank you.

Rob: Just real quick, what kind of questions was he asking?

Man 1: What I think a lot of the success of the business, or of any business, is that he was able to talk to me, who knew exactly what he was talking about in the questions he was asking, and I could kind of go around and bring up a point.

The hard thing is when he goes, “Well do you think that is too heavy or too light for him?” How the !@#$ would I know? He is not sitting here in front of me.

Rob: OK. Tell him to think about the Whistle Buyer’s guide. You stopped getting a bunch of questions…

Steve: Well yeah, that was what we were talking about. We would constantly get questions from people going, “I am looking for a whistle that will make dogs go away from me when I am jogging.” There is no such thing!

Man 1: OK. I was just going to say in my mind I am thinking, “Wow! That is a pretty cool invention!”

Steve: A great one! It is the same thing along the lines of a whistle that will stop your neighbor’s dog from barking. I can come up with that. I can take everybody that I know, everybody that you know, and we could all go to the Bahamas and stay there forever! But it doesn’t exist.

So I wrote up a little thing about whistles. And it was more of a “Here’s what whistles do,” but we also had a section on, “Here’s what whistles don’t do.” We wrote all that and all the questions went away.

Rob: With the questions he was asking, what type of player was that? Was that a youth?

Man 1: Yeah. Little league bat. He has got two boys throwing Little League. He wanted a 30 inch for one. One is a 28 inch.

Rob: So age wise, what are these guys?

Man 1: Probably like 12 and 10. But his question is kind of a question you almost can’t answer. “Is this bat too heavy for him?”

Steve: Right. Don’t know.

Man 1: How do we know? We don’t! What we do know is we can ask questions. So a lot of what happens is if I just put some yahoo on the phone and just say, “Hey, answer the call,” they are not going to know, and the guy is going to be frustrated, and within a minute he is going to go, “These guys don’t know what the !@#$ they are talking about.” Whether he buys something coming back because we have cancelled this order, at least he knows that he spoke to somebody, and he goes, “Wow. That guy knew what he was talking about.”

So he can ask that question and say, “Hey, what about this and what about that?” I can ask him questions to answer questions.

Rob: What kind of questions was he asking?

Man 1: Well first and most importantly was, “Do you think this is too heavy for him?” “Hey, we don’t know. OK. What has he been using?” I kind of turned the question back to him. “What has he been using? Has he been having success with that?”

Rob: What size bat was he using?

Man 1: Well he didn’t say the size. What he did say was it was a 10 ounce drop. So in other words, meaning it was a 30 inch negative 10, so 10 from 30 is 20. So it is a 30 inch, 20 ounce bad.

“Had he been having success…?” “Yes, he is doing very well…”

Rob: And that is a smaller bat for a lighter bat?

Man 1: No. It is kind of considered a heavy bat. For Little League it is definitely considered a heavy bat, 10 ounces. They go 11, 11.5, 12, 13; they go lighter. So 10 is kind of what they call the power hitter’s bat. So you know, power hitter, you think of a kid that is a strong kid.

Steve: So he’s having success with that, but he’s trying to buy a different size.

Man 1: So now all of a sudden he is totally flimflammed and he is going, “Well I am thinking of this other bat, this LB1.” OK. Well the LB1 is a negative 12.

Rob: So that is lighter?

Man 1: Much lighter. It is a 30 inch, 18 ounce versus 20 ounce. Two ounces is big.

Rob: You are really good with math.


Rob: It makes a big difference!

Steve: It makes a big difference on a bat.

Man 1: Big difference. Not only that, one was a composite bat and one was a metal bat.

Rob: What is the difference?

Man 1: The new thing nowadays is composite.

Rob: What is composite? Is it multiples…?

Man 1: It is like a mixture of Kevlar, fiberglass, carbon. Everything is fused. And what happens in metal…If you looked at metal in a microscope, there are a lot of peaks, and pits, and valleys in metal. What happens with composite is it is supposed to fill all that in and give a little bit more elasticity to the trauma of the ball hitting the bat and trampolining out.

So what is going to happen is, some of the hotter bats with composites, which is like the Combat, that one it says Combat V2 and the Combat, the one above it, those bats…And I know personally, because my youngest son, who last year when we first went out, he doesn’t even play baseball. He likes baseball but he doesn’t really play. He doesn’t play Little League. He gave that up two or three years ago.

I took him to the field and I was pitching balls, and I am seeing him hit the !@#$ing ball. He is like, “I think I might play baseball now!” I was laughing to myself, because this freaking bat! I mean it just !@#$ing launches the ball! How it is legal, I don’t know.

Rob: Because it’s composite?

Man 1: He is hitting the ball…I mean on a little league field, which is like 200 or 210, or whatever it is, he was hitting the ball over, but he is…

Rob: He is putting it out there.

Man 1: He is putting it out there! And he never hits the ball out! I know…And I am like going, “What the !@#$ did he…?”

Anyway, yeah, the composites have definitely been the material now that the whole market has kind of gone to. What is happening now of course is that college now says, “We are eliminating composites.”

Rob: Right. Aluminum only or metal?

Man 1: Yeah. So that is not going on like right now. And not only that, now they have also come out with a new thing called BESR Certification that had been approved by college and high school. Now they are going with a new thing called BB Core, which is another technical whatever. Effective as, I think, 2012, any bat that I have now, these bats we call BESR Certified, every one is obsolete.

We have two years to flush and get done with it. So probably effective almost immediately, everything that Easton and every bat manufacturer makes will be the new BB Core bat.

So as you roll through your inventory, before the time 2012 comes, you should be almost into all BB Core bats anyway.

Rob: So are they grandfathering any of those in?

Man 1: Right now, yeah. You have until 2012. So kids that are going into like their Junior and Senior year in college, they will never see or know of the BB core bat.

Rob: Right, because everybody will be using these.

Man 1: A kid that is a freshman, for this year and next year he is going to use it and then he is going to switch to what they call the BB core bat. As to how that performs, who knows?

Rob: And that is mostly college?

Steve: Are those out yet?

Man 1: They are not out yet. This just happened like maybe 30 or 45 days ago. It has been in talks for the past year, and now they kind of authorized that as what they are going to do. They are changing. They kind of give you that transition time.

For most stores it doesn’t really matter all that much, because they don’t have the inventory that I have. But yeah, I better go through that inventory or I have a big !@#$ing problem.

Steve: Are you going to be able to move everything?

Man 1: Yeah. I mean I don’t really have…Some guys are panicking, like, “Well nobody is going to want to buy, blah, blah.” You know what? If this bat outperforms the BB Core bat and this kid is a senior in high school. He ain’t buying a BB core bat. He goes, “I don’t give a S#!%! I am not going to be playing next year in college. I can’t make the team at such and such university. I am living for today!”

Rob: Up until that last second they are still going to be using the ones that are…

Steve: What kind of lifespan does a bat normally have? Does it depend on how much you use it?

Man 1: Definitely. Well I said to that guy, just to be an asshole, I go…Well these guys also go, “Will he be able to use this bat for the next five seasons?” I go, “Well if he strikes out a lot and doesn’t hit the ball, absolutely! It will last forever!”

But in reality it is like, “Start him chain-smoking now. When he is [xx] and not sleeping, just keep him up and let him sleep for an hour a day and he won’t grow; yeah, he will fit that bat!”

Steve: Yeah. It will be perfect.

Rob: We don’t necessarily have to get into this now, but eventually I want to go through it. OK. You have got somebody in little league. Walk me through from little bitty kid just getting into little league to big slugger getting into little league. What are their options? That is the kind of content that we need on the website.

Man 1: There is a tremendous amount of options; huge, huge, huge amount of options. With the younger kid it is basically the lighter the bat the better, because really what you want to do is just make contact.

Rob: So those are what types of bats? Those are the 12’s you said?

Man 1: Well they are T-ball bats, so they are usually like 24, 25, or 26 inch, that teeny tiny bat.

Rob: And the age of the kid?

Man 1: Four, five, or six. Keep in mind it is T-ball. The bat is tiny and the barrel is this big, so it is not like they can whittle and make that bat super duper light. It is usually a negative 10 to a negative 12. Because I mean in reality, what are you swinging? You are swinging…I mean literally, the bat is like this big. It is about this big.

All the weight is in here.

Rob: In the barrel?

Man 1: Yeah. The more that they whittle it out, I mean the bat will end up breaking.

Rob: So lighter bats have thinner barrels?

Man 1: Thinner walls. Sure.

Rob: But as far as the width of the barrels, the width is the same but they use thinner…?

Man 1: The width of the barrel is always going to be 2 ¼ inch diameter, which is what all little league bats are; every one of them. They are all 2 ¼ inch diameter. And then the thinner the wall, the lighter the bat. So depending on the materials they are using, or whether it is composite or metal, some of the bats are what they call two piece bats. So in other words, this is a separate piece than this and it is put together. This is what they call a three piece bat.

Rob: That is the Triton? Who makes that? Is that Easton?

Man 1: Louisville.

Rob: See. I am here to learn!

Man 1: So yeah. But as far as a younger kid, they are using the lighter, smaller bats just to give themselves the ability to make contact. If they get up there and use this heavy, heavy, heavy, big, big long bat and they can’t swing the bat, after one year it is like, “Ah, I don’t wanna play.”

Steve: Right. It is not any fun.

Man 1: No. Not at all. VN620007

Rob: So t-ball is like the ball sitting on the tee just like it was when we played t-ball 30 years ago.

Man 1: Yeah. The ball is sitting on a tee. Usually, what they do is by the end of the season, then they go into what they call coach pitch.

Rob: OK. There coach is throwing the ball.

Man 1: Yeah. Here is the mound and here is the batter. The coach is usually half way. He can’t sit there and throw, so he is usually like on one knee and he just kind of lobs balls in. The kids are obviously free swinging or trying to swing, hopefully.

Rob: Then they graduate from t-ball and go…

Man 1: They go from t-ball right into little league.

Rob: And those ages are…?

Man 1: Usually anywhere from 7-12. And then there are birthday cutoffs, and they have different levels, like minor league and major league.

Rob: But within little league, if it was five different years, would you have five different teams? So like the seven year olds aren’t playing the 12 year olds?

Man 1: Of course. Usually what they do is, I think it is like third and fourth is together, or like 2nd and 3rd, 4th and 5th, 6th and 7th, and then the older 7th and 8th graders are together. And from there they move onto the bigger field at the 7th and 8th grade level.

Rob: And with the range of bats they would be using, is that where the little league/youth label comes in?

Man 1: I call it little league because little league is what we are. Where you guys are, they may not call it little league. They mall call it Dizzy league. They may be like, “We don’t play little league.” In reality it is a generic, Xerox name of like, “Oh, it is little league.”

I tend to use the word little league where I probably shouldn’t, but it should be youth league.

Rob: And that is just ages…?

Man 1: Up until about 12.

Rob: As far as the options in bats that they have, they are going to be using heavier and longer bats as they…?

Man 1: As they get older they go up.

Rob: So what is a good entry level bat for a new little league kid?

Man 1: There are so many choices.

Rob: What would be the best seller, you think? Just to pick one just as an example.

Man 1: Price is always a factor. Like, “Hey, he is just playing in 12 or 14 rec games. He is just playing because his friends play. He doesn’t need to have the $250 bat.”

Rob: So walk my nephew through. Let’s just say he is just starting little league and he gets a youth bat or a little league bat. Let’s say he wants Easton just to make life simpler. So he has got 10 different options, or even more than that? Like within one model year, because I am trying to wrap my head around how…

Man 1: They try to work it as good, better, best. They have like, “here is your $29.95 bat, $39, $49, $59, $69, $79, and on and on.” What we do well is we have that $250 bat, or that $150 bat, or that $100 bat that now is $39, $49, and $69. Their lesser expensive bats I generally don’t carry because their better bats, I make my lesser expensive bats, and then the new bats are the more expensive bats.

Rob: So like good, better, best, you are saying $29, $49, and $69?

Man 1: Something like that. That is how we present it. We will present to a consumer and say, “Hey, what are we looking for? OK. He needs a little league bat. OK. So we know he is little. Any brand specific? Has he had Easton, always had Easton, loved Easton, brother had Easton, you are an Easton guy?”

Some guys will be like, “I only want Louisville.” Or they are men where Dean Marini is very popular in softball and they will go, “I have Dean Marini and I want him to have Dean Marini.” “Dad, I want the same bat you have!” You know, Dean Marini. And then it becomes, “OK. Here is what we have.” We can really spell it out pretty easy.

We ask the question, which is, “Is he playing travel ball?” Once he is playing travel ball, we know that they will spend whatever they want to spend.

Steve: Well it is an indicator of interest. Travel ball guys, I mean they are on the road every weekend.

Man 1: Sure. They are playing all over. They are on a team that they pay. So they may pay to be a member of this team and they play 40 games a summer, which is a good amount. They may $500 to be on that team.

Steve: Right. So a $250 bat is nothing.

Man 1: And they are well aware that it costs that much.

Rob: And they would be going for the best. No matter what, whatever is legal, they want the most potent…

Man 1: Latest, greatest, hot. And then it really becomes a sales pitch to say, “OK. Here is the latest and greatest, top, top, top of the line, and bang, bang, bang. But other values, we have this, we have this, we have this.” So it is not uncommon that we have a guy come in who is looking for the top of the line bat and we throw literally 10 choices at him, which is great because they just can’t get that anywhere. They just can’t.

Rob: But what are the differences between those 10 bats? That is the kind of thing as far as developing a buyer’s guide…

Man 1: Weight is an issue. So for example, if we look at the top, the white bat, so Easton Synergy. That is a composite bat. Beneath it you have three bats in a row that are composite bats, but they are two piece bats.

So for example, what that means is you see that little rubber ring in the middle of all those bats? Those are two piece bats.

Rob: Those are all little league?

Man 1: They are all little league bats. Everything on this right side is little league. But if we look at the top, the top bat is a composite bat and it is one piece. See how it doesn’t have the connection?

Steve: So it is the entire thing from…

Man 1: The entire thing is one piece. It is a composite. So it is also 12 ounces less the inches. So 30 inch is 18 ounces. Whatever the inch, always 12 less.

The next three bats in a row are also 20/10 bats, as well as the white one. But the difference is that…Actually, we kind of have them out of order a little bit, because the red one is the negative 13. And again, 30 inch, 17 ounce.

The blue one up top is negative 12, so it is 30 inch, 19 ounce. And then the green one is 9 drop, which is 30 inch, 21 ounce, which is a heavy bat. So really you have three bats that are the same bat. For the most part, as far as technology, weight is your issue.

Steve: The majority of that weight is taken care of in the barrel?

Man 1: Correct. So if you have a kid that comes in and I look at him and go, “Hey, what high school do you go to?” And he goes, “No, I am in sixth grade.” For him the heavy bat would be a good bat, because weight is good, but if you have the power to swing that heavy bat… Guys will say, “What weight should I get?” Swing the heaviest bat that you are comfortable swinging. Period. If the lightest one is the most comfortable, then that is the one to use.

However, if you are a big kid and you are strong, and you swing that bat, your results will be tremendous. So those three bats, where they are the same bat, same bat, same family, same…

Rob: Is Stealth the family?

Man 1: It is. Well, the new name this year is the Stealth Speed.

Rob: And that is the 2009 or the 2010?

Man 1: 2010.

Rob: OK. And then the weights are the red, blue, and green?

Man 1: Right. So 9, 11, and 13. If you look and you say, “Hey. The four top of the line bats, what do we have?” As far as bats go, we have those four bats, and actually, all four of them are different. They are all $250 and they are all four different.

People say, “Which one is the best one?” We don’t know that. Let’s see. What is he capable of swinging? What is he physically comfortable with swinging?

Rob: Do they know that when they are the website? Do they have a pretty good idea?

Man 1: Yeah, I mean…Again, this guy on the phone, who kind of really didn’t know, but he said, “Hey. He swung a negative 10 last year.” He knew enough that he did swing a negative 10. He said, “Hey. He swung it last year. He was OK with that. He did well.”

Or it may be like one I talked to last year, “Yeah, my kid swung a negative 10 last year. He struggled. He didn’t hit the ball for S#!%.”

Steve: So if that is the case you would tend to go with a lighter bad?

Man 1: Yeah, you should go lighter. You absolutely should go lighter. There is no reason that he needs to struggle. I mean, yeah, you bought that bat. Why, I don’t know. If it was a hand me down or if it was something that somebody gave you or something that you bought and you bought it because it was a good deal, maybe you didn’t make the right decision.

Rob: So all four of those are $250 a piece? Would those be the best in the good, better, best?

Man 1: Most definitely.

Rob: What is the difference in the heaviest Stealth Speed and the Synergy Speed, just the material?

Man 1: Well the Synergy is a one piece and is a negative 12, and the Speed…OK. If you notice, they didn’t duplicate the weight since it is a 12. So you have a bat that is a minus 9, minus 11, minus 12, and a minus 13.

Some guys will say, “Oh, I don’t like the connection. I don’t like the two piece bat.” Sometimes guys will go, “Oh, I don’t like that connection piece because if you hit the ball there…” And I say, “Fine. If you hit the ball there, the ball is going nowhere anyway. You shouldn’t be. If you ever hit the ball down there, you are not hitting the ball in the right spot. And yeah, the ball is not going anywhere. But even if it was a one piece bat, if you hit the ball there it is not going anywhere anyway.”

It also acts as a vibration dampener. That one piece bat tends to bring it right down to your hands. That other way it has to pass through that. The rubber piece kind of acts as an absorber.

Steve: But that would be a good thing, wouldn’t it?

Man 1: Yeah. But again, I have heard people go, “I don’t like connection bats.” OK. And they realize that and they say, “OK. Not everything can be a connection bat. For those non-connection people, here is…”

Rob: And a connection is a two piece. And the Synergy you said is a minus 12?

Man 1: It is.

Rob: And it fits in between the medium and the heavy one?

Man 1: Well exactly. In the Speeds, you have 9, 11, and 13. There is no 12.

Rob: So those four bats are all completely different weights?

Man 1: Totally.

Rob: And if you are a power hitter and you could wing a 13, why would you do a 12?

Man 1: Well a power hitter should be a stronger kid, and he should go on the heavier bat side. And that is what I would use. Some guys would just be more comfortable if they said, “Hey, you know what? I like the lighter one.” “OK. You like the lighter bat. Whatever.”

Rob: So it is just kind of like gearing down a little bit.

Man 1: Right. But that bat, that minus 9, is made for you. That is your kind of bat. It is really trying to custom fit that bat for that player for his…You are trying to enhance his positives. “Hey, he is a strong kid.” “Heavier bat, better results if he can physically swing it.”

Good player, small kid, very, very lightweight, can’t swing that bat, but he is a good player and he is an enthusiast. Gotta have something for him. Can’t just go, “OK. Here is the heavier bat…”

Steve: “Go struggle with this.”

Man 1: Yeah.

Rob: Just get him on base, right?

Man 1: Well he may not have the power, but again, when it comes to the younger kids it is all about getting on base, making contact, and hitting the ball. I mean they don’t think of it as like, “Hey, I got a hit,” as if I hit the ball and they didn’t get me out. It is like they hit the ball and they threw him out at first base. They think, “Oh, I got a hit.”

Steve: Right. Getting on base is less of a…

Man 1: Right. They hit the ball. “I got a hit!” It is not a hit, but in essence they hit.

Steve: They didn’t strike out.

Man 1: Right. “Strike one, strike two, strike three! Sit down!”

Rob: Yeah. “All right Snell! Next Snell!”


Rob: I don’t know why I didn’t get drafted!


Man 1: Now just to go one step further product wise, as you kind of tier down, the yellow bat, silver barrel, what that is is composite shaft…

Rob: The fourth bat up there? The SV12?

Man 1: Fifth. Composite shaft, connection piece, metal barrel.

Rob: So it is kind of like a hybrid barrel?

Man 1: So it is kind of like…

Rob: The best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds.

Man 1: So that is a 13 ounce differential, so it is a good lightweight bat that kind of acts as a counterpart. Sometimes guys say, “I don’t like the thud. The composites sound very thuddy, very woody sounding, very dead.”

Steve: Right. They don’t go ding.

Man 1: Right. “I like the ping of aluminum.” Like you hear the, “I like the crack of wood.” Instead it is the ping of aluminum.

Rob: Mississippi State baseball; we know that sound. Be looking, because if it is a foul you are going to get hit.

Man 1: So from there, then you are going to go down into the V12, and the V12 is a counterpart of the top bat, the Synergy. It is one piece, but it is metal.

Rob: OK. This is very helpful.

Man 1: So now all of a sudden, if you look at all the bats we just looked at, every one of them is different; every one.

Rob: So whatever you like, there is something for you. It is like driving cars. My girlfriend’s car is really lightweight and it is really punchy. You step on the gas and you are going, you know? But it is like a four cylinder.

But my car is like really, really heavy and not a lot of punch. But once I get going, it is not going to stop. So talk about bat speed. Is that something where a bat being light or heavy is…? To be able to increase bat speed. You know, like the parachutes we were pushing.

Man 1: Right. Bat speed is, again, you mechanics, your ability to be able to swing the bat hard but under control. Anybody can get up there and just take a bat, and somebody is just throwing the ball, and you kind of go back like you have an ax or a sledge hammer in your hand and just swing. But baseball is definitely a game of mechanics, of muscle memory, of swinging and keeping your eye on the ball and following through and using your legs and your hips, not just getting up there and swinging with your arms, because that is only going to take you so far. When you can enhance those things, that is when your results are much better.

You can tell with the kids. You can see how they play. Everything is in tune, with their feet all the way up to the top, when they are swinging, and those are the kids that perform.

Rob: So with the SV-12, is that a best bat or a good bat?

Man 1: I still consider it one of the better bats. As a matter of fact, this entire wall basically is better bats; all top end stuff that is up here because either A, it is a 2010, or B, because it is a 2009 that has now become a great deal.


Man 1: We did this last year if you remember, or the year before, where we tried to have like, “Hey. Here is the 2010. Here is the 2009 and here is the 2008.” We kind of try to match these things up.

So for example, you could look at like the copper color barrel with the blue and the red shaft and then basically look up and go to that SV-12. So that SV-12 in reality is really the same bat as those two bats, except for some weight, which I will get into in a second. But that bat is $90. That bat is $199.

Now don’t get me wrong. At this point right now, quite honestly, we probably paid $60 for those bats. So at $99 we are still whatever, but I would certainly love to have been able…I mean at one point we were selling that bat for $149, $129, and now it becomes like, “Well we have got to get rid of this stuff.”

Rob: But the fact that, for the customer, it becomes a better deal…Like last year’s bats are virtually the same. So you are comparing what, the SV-12…?

Man 1: Well here. Let me compare this. This is a negative 13.

Rob: The Stealth CNT?

Man 1: Right. So this is a 2008 model; composite shaft, metal barrel. The SV-12, this yellow one, is the same bat as this bat, composite shaft, metal barrel. That is on closeout now for $149, I think. OK. And then SV-12, the silver barrel, yellow shaft, is a 2010.

So you have that family, $90, $150, $200. You want 2010? You have got to be the latest, greatest guy in the world? Great. But that 2008, that 2009, great deal.

Rob: And they are virtually the same?

Man 1: It is the exact same. Obviously there is a color difference, but other than that…

Steve: But as far as materials and how it is made.

Man 1: Absolutely. Same thing. 100%. Connection piece, carbon nano-tube shaft. It is the same bat.

Rob: That is like cars. They just put different paint jobs on them and make them look…

Man 1: Yeah. So that is a real good example of year, versus year, versus year. Then I will say, “Hey. Yeah, those bottom two bats that I showed you, those were actually $189, but now they are older and the price has dropped.”

The V-12, the black one, there was no previous, previous year, so that is an 09. And then look at the green barrel V-12.

Steve: Exact same construction.

Man 1: Yeah. So now the black and green is $129, and that one, I think, is $179. So yeah. Same bat.

Rob: How far back do these bats go as far as tracing bat history?

Man 1: Well hopefully we are doing our job and we are getting rid of bats, so it is not like, “Hey! In 2001…” You know, it is like…

Rob: But seriously. Walk me through something that has got like four or five years back. Do they do that or do they change so much?

Man 1: Four or five years back would be extreme. Like in those bats, we had like over 1,000 of them. That is tough to move that kind of quantity. So for the most part, in reality, what we are doing is eventually get down to where we only have one size. Like, “Hey, I have a 2007 bat, but shoot. I only have 28 inch,” which is like the least desirable size.

So yeah, sometimes it will sit. But I think that my push to differentiate us from everybody else is, “Yeah, we have the 2010, but I also have the 2009, and I may even have the 2008. And basically they are virtually the same bat, but for a heck of a lot less money and the same technology.”

If they came out with a bat every year that hit the ball further than that bat the previous year, we would just sell that one bat because people wouldn’t even want to hear it. “If that hits the ball furthest, that is the bat I want.”

Rob: But it is like clothes in fashion. Everybody wants this year’s…

Steve: No. Some people do.

Man 1: Some people do, but I will tell you what. We have developed a following of people that, “Hey, I don’t…” This bat over here, which is the high school or adult baseball bat, Louisville made this bat for Sports Authority. They had it in their lineup. It is a 2008 bat. And in typical fashion of the big box stores, they probably said, “Oh, we have 1,500 left to take. We don’t really need them. We didn’t sell as many as we thought. We don’t want them.”

Now the manufacturer had been selling this and built that for them. It is not in the product line. Nobody else has it. What is good for them and it is on ad, and, “Oh, it is normally $289.95…” No, it was $369, on sale for $299. It was on sale for $299. BullS#!%, right, because they paid, which they told me what they paid. They said that they paid $175 for it.

In reality, if that was a $369 bat they would have paid $275. So they are like, “Oh, we are good guys. We are putting this on sale.” Everybody knows it because Exo is a pretty big name.

So now all of a sudden you have this bat that is a 2008 removed, but it is a great value, because they are the only ones that have that bat. So they screw them over. In turn, I come in, or somebody like myself, and says, “Yeah, OK. 59? I will buy them all and give you $100.” So I am going to sell that bat for $199.95.

Rob: And it used to sell for $300 and now it is $200?

Man 1: What do you call it is still running it on ad. I saw it. I think it was at $299, and I think they put it on ad at $249.95.

Steve: You are still $50 under them.

Man 1: I am still on $199. So again, now this bat is to go similar to that bat. This is the 2010 version of that bat. There was, and I think we have a couple of pieces left, a 2009 which is black. So again, it is the same thing.

Rob: Now what is that, the exo-grid?

Man 1: Right, the exo-grid. So it is $369.95 for the 2010. I got the same bat. It is the same bat.

Steve: Right, just different colors.

Man 1: $199. That is a S#!%load of money.

Steve: Especially if you have got three kids playing baseball.

Man 1: Absolutely. VN620010

Man 1: …$249.95. And I had it there and $199 just sells so much better. So we could probably lead them out at $249, but I figure, let’s just not keep things.

Steve: You like moving them.

Rob: OK. When somebody is looking at one of these, back to these four that are related, they Stealth Speeds and the Synergy Speed. When somebody is looking at one of those, do we need to refer to those other bats, like, “Need a heavier bat? Click here. Need a lighter bat? Click here.”

Like if they are looking at these four bats…

Man 1: Well almost like same family, same brand, same type, same make?

Rob: Right.

Man 1: This is another one that is a little lighter. This is an option that is a little heavier. What fits your body style? What fits your game?

Rob: But would that be something to have on each product page? Like go, “Want a lighter bat? Here is a lighter bat. Want a heavier bat? Here is a heavier bat.”

Man 1: If you have it available, yes. But if you don’t have it available…Some guy will go, “Yes, I do need a heavier bat.” Oh !@#$, we don’t have it. Well then the guy goes, “Oh, well then I don’t need this one either.”

Rob: Right. But we could have it to where if there is not one, it wouldn’t show up. But would that be helpful for folks shopping for a bat if they didn’t know what they were looking for?

Man 1: I think so. I think that the question is, “Is this bat to light or is this bat to heavy? Here are your options. Here are potential options in the same type of bat.”

Rob: What if we are out of something…” Like you talk about the different lengths. The drop is the same in all these different sizes, right? How many different sizes will you have in one of those bats?

Man 1: The drop is always the same.

Rob: It is a ratio.

Man 1: Right. So if it is minus 9, whatever the inch, if it is a 30 inch it is going to be 21 ounces. If it is a 31…Again, it is always going to be that negative nine. So it is not as if you can get that other option…

Rob: So what determines what the length of the bat is, how long somebody’s arms are?

Man 1: That is also, again, very difficult. Could a kid swing a 30 inch if he is swinging a 29? Yeah, he could probably get away with it. It is all about comfort. And it is...It is difficult. And it is my business. It is difficult to order something over the website.

Rob: It is like ordering shoes.

Man 1: Exactly. In Nike I wear a size 11. In Adidas I wear a 10 ½. It is like the just cut them differently.

Rob: So you could get a shorter bat that is heavier or you could get a longer bat that…

Man 1: Longer generally tends to be the way that people go because of the fact that they always kind of want it to last. “Oh, I don’t want to buy another one next year.” “Will this last him his whole little league career?” So length is always an option that people say, “Hey, I want to go with the longer just because I think it will last him longer.”

Steve: But they could be cutting this kid short. If they buy him the wrong size bat thinking, “OK. He will do better in a year or two,” if they get him the wrong size bat now he might not want to play in a year or two.

Man 1: Sure. Absolutely.

Rob: So would it be better for somebody that can swing a heavier bat to get a longer bat instead? See where I am going? If you are swinging a bat that is in the middle…What is one of the Stealth Speeds that is in the middle? Which one is that?

Man 1: Negative 11.

Rob: OK. So if you are swinging that easy and you want something bigger, you could actually go for a longer one of those, right?

Man 1: Well if you are using negative 11 and you can go longer…In other words…Well do the math. If you look at the bat that is a negative 11 saying, “This is 30 inches, 19 ounces. I could use a 31 inch in the negative 13 and actually be an ounce lighter than the other bat in the negative 11.”

Here is the one thing, though. Actually, here is a better comparison. See the two Stealth bats, the one with the copper color barrels?

Rob: Red and blue?

Man 1: Right. So here you have the blue one. The blue one is a negative 13 and the red one is a negative 11. Look at the length of the shell on the negative 11, how much bigger. There is a lot more surface.

Now with the speeds they tend to not be so extreme. But those bats in general…Again, when somebody comes in and says, “I don’t know which one,” I say, “Here is what you are looking at. Here is the surface to hit with as opposed to…”

Rob: How can we show that on the website? Is that something…Is there a number that is the length of the surface?

Man 1: Not really, no.

Rob: I am still not wrapping my head around that. Walk me through that one more time. So the Stealth CNT; there are two different drops.

Man 1: Right. Well let’s go back to the 20/10 bats which don’t have such an extreme differential in barrel length. If it was as extreme as these, we could look at it and go, “Well S#!%. Look at the length of this shell versus this shell, versus this shell.”

But here is the upside/downside. Longer bat, longer hitting surface. Heavier bat, a lot of hitting surface, but it is heavier. Can you physically swing it?

Rob: So people want to swing the heaviest bat they can possibly swing accurately and comfortably, but no heavier.

Man 1: Right. I think when you use the word heavy, that is kind of like a bad word for people, because they are like, “Heavy?” I say you want to swing as heavy a bat as you can handle. What can you handle? And if that happens to be the lightest bat, then that is as heavy as you can handle! That is what it is.

Rob: So walk me through this again. You said the 2010’s are different in the barrel lengths?

Man 1: Right. The barrel length on those bats tends not to be as extreme. And we can actually go out and open up a box and kind of take a look at the three of them side, by side, by side and say, “You know what? S#!%.” It is all interior then versus exterior.

Rob: What is interior?

Man 1: Interior as far as where your weight issues are. With the other one, the blue and the red one, you can see that the red one has a shell that is very…Anybody can look at it and go, “Damn. That thing is much longer.”

Rob: So what would the weight be of one of those bats? What is a popular weight?

Man 1: Let’s just pick 30 inches. So a 30 inch minus 9 is 21 ounce. Minus 11 is 19. And then minus 13 is 17. So those are your three weight differences.

Rob: And there is a big difference between a 21 ounce bat and a 17 ounce bat? Man 1: S#!% yeah. An ounce is a pretty big jump for a kid. Two ounces is another world.

Rob: I wonder if there could be like a chart or a matrix that could show age and…

Man 1: There is. I am not a big fan of it.

Steve: Well I was about to say, that would be difficult because…

Man 1: It is a very box-storish type of thing where you come in and you say, “I don’t know S#!%.” “Oh great! Here is a chart.” “He is 9. How much do you weight? 65 pounds. He is rated beginner intermediate or expert.” “Oh, here is what we have!”

Rob: A little kid in our neighborhood, Clint Sims, he could swing the heaviest bat you have. And I would be the biggest kid in the neighborhood and I would have the little bat. You know what I mean? Just because somebody is little or young, they might be great and really strong.

But is that where you could put the experience tag on somebody? You were talking just a second ago about levels of…

Man 1: Generally the smaller kids do tend to swing the lighter bats just because of that reason; they are lighter. Again, they could be a great player…

Rob: A really great player as a kid, he can be a lot stronger than he looks, right?

Man 1: Oh, definitely. But I think that is the extreme. That is not the…

Rob: That is not the norm?

Man 1: No.

Softball Bats